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Thread: Nikon D800E -in pursuit of sharpness

  1. #101
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    I think alot of people are missing out TS's good intention in starting this thread. But anyway, there's no point explaining anyway because they will never get it.

    I appreciate the sharing of the tests done and also the results, recommendation of lens to use or not to use.

    I wish people who were critical in this thread would post some of their own tests, so that we can learn from them.

    Deadpoet may be dead but his evil critical presences seems to have infected many people. Hahaha
    Don't brag about your accomplishments; Show us your future works.

  2. #102

    Default Re: Nikon D800E -in pursuit of sharpness

    Hi TS,
    I'm not sure if anyone asked this question before.

    You showed that corner sharpness suffered when shot with D800E, but not with lower res body like D700 etc.
    So will downsizing / down sampling the image help to restore the sharpness as seen in D700?

    Also, will downsizing / down sampling the image help in correcting a less sharp image taken with a lower quality lens on D800E?

    Thanks,

  3. #103
    Senior Member Ansel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nikon D800E -in pursuit of sharpness

    Quote Originally Posted by clydez View Post
    Hi TS,
    I'm not sure if anyone asked this question before.

    You showed that corner sharpness suffered when shot with D800E, but not with lower res body like D700 etc.
    So will downsizing / down sampling the image help to restore the sharpness as seen in D700?

    Also, will downsizing / down sampling the image help in correcting a less sharp image taken with a lower quality lens on D800E?

    Thanks,
    I'm sure it helps, but that will be missing the point in having the D800E right?

  4. #104

    Default Re: Nikon D800E -in pursuit of sharpness

    The D800/E offers more options than that.

    1. You may shoot UWA while holding exactly straight to avoid converging verticals, the extra foreground at the bottom can be cropped so you get buildings that are exactly straight with a 20 mp file.

    2. If you are using using cheapo lenses, you may downsample to give apparent sharpness and noise suppression. Same benefits for quick handheld snaps. Cheapo lenses has the advantages of being light and less heart pain if damaged. Am playing with 28-80mm f/3.5-5.6 which is a full frame and costs a mere $150.

    3. You can shoot with older but less stellar ais lenses while enjoying manual focusing and wider apertures. Collected the whole range from 20 - 200mm. Despite the trolls and whiners in dpreview, you can get easily tack sharp focus with one button live-view and lv zoom.

    4. With one button live-view, you can shoot at high-speed continuous without mirror slappings and lower noise.






    Quote Originally Posted by Ansel View Post
    I'm sure it helps, but that will be missing the point in having the D800E right?

  5. #105

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    Can any of the guru post more night shot photo taken by D800E

  6. #106

    Default Re: Nikon D800E -in pursuit of sharpness

    Well, yes, downsizing will help....so you will lose details and the unsharpness in the corners is not so visible anymore...but whats the point of being a 36mpeg camera and then downsize the file ?
    Quote Originally Posted by clydez View Post
    Hi TS,
    I'm not sure if anyone asked this question before.

    You showed that corner sharpness suffered when shot with D800E, but not with lower res body like D700 etc.
    So will downsizing / down sampling the image help to restore the sharpness as seen in D700?

    Also, will downsizing / down sampling the image help in correcting a less sharp image taken with a lower quality lens on D800E?

    Thanks,

  7. #107

    Default Re: Nikon D800E -in pursuit of sharpness

    Enthusiast usually do not need to make large prints or display full res photos. Hence down sizing will help to ensure pictures coming out from this camera is at least on par with the quality of D700 and the rest.
    It does not make sense it cannot produce a decent quality image for facebook or 4R print due to the high MP count.

    Quote Originally Posted by Achim Reh View Post
    Well, yes, downsizing will help....so you will lose details and the unsharpness in the corners is not so visible anymore...but whats the point of being a 36mpeg camera and then downsize the file ?

  8. #108
    Senior Member Ansel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nikon D800E -in pursuit of sharpness

    Quote Originally Posted by clydez View Post
    Enthusiast usually do not need to make large prints or display full res photos. Hence down sizing will help to ensure pictures coming out from this camera is at least on par with the quality of D700 and the rest.
    It does not make sense it cannot produce a decent quality image for facebook or 4R print due to the high MP count.
    Again, if that's what you are looking for "on par with D700", why do you need the D800/E, just hang on to the D700 (like what I'll be doing for some time). The main reason (for most people) for having the D800/E will be the high pixel count, for details, and for making large prints if they want to.

  9. #109

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    With increase details and dynamic range why do we still relate 800/e to printing as one of the deciding factors... Are we all printing consistently or do we just like other mediums better?

    To me if it's not something I will do, it's not a necessary feature and with so little shops left around town doing prints it's probably another indicator many aren't doing it as well, it's obvious we can boost mpS to 100mp and people will still not print...

    I use downsizing when I get less than satisfyingly sharp results on film.... Get a nicely big scan, do your edits, clones , retouching and downsize it... This gives me more working space to play before the final delivery..... And at 36mp and with more detail resolution from the E cropping gives so much advantage when you you find yourself at a disadvantage in composition..
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/tang_yiming/

  10. #110

    Default Re: Nikon D800E -in pursuit of sharpness

    Quote Originally Posted by clydez View Post
    Enthusiast usually do not need to make large prints or display full res photos. Hence down sizing will help to ensure pictures coming out from this camera is at least on par with the quality of D700 and the rest.
    It does not make sense it cannot produce a decent quality image for facebook or 4R print due to the high MP count.
    if you like me make prints don't often go beyond 8" x 11", then the D800 is of no use to me .... I like to print a few viewable size based on a theme to display and yet not have to stand far to view it, hence a D3 or D700 makes more sense for me .... if you look at the resolution of the D800, a 100% image can easily stretch beyond 3 or 4 24" displays side by side and more than 2 stack on top, all in more than 9 24" displays and how far are you going to sit back to view and how close you wanna sit to pixel peep ....

  11. #111

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    Can any of the guru post more night shot photo taken by D800E

  12. #112
    Senior Member edutilos-'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Nikon D800E -in pursuit of sharpness

    Quote Originally Posted by JacePhoto View Post
    I think alot of people are missing out TS's good intention in starting this thread. But anyway, there's no point explaining anyway because they will never get it.
    I looked at this thread and I think the tests are not good. As pointed out, it can be affected by wind. There's a reason why all the more credible sites always take their photographs in a studio setting. And even then, places like Imaging Resource tend to get the focus off still.

    That said, whether the tests are needed or not is a separate matter. I suppose for most D800 and D800E users they WOULD want to know what maximizes the sensor capability I guess.. Otherwise you might as well just stick to the D700 or literally anything goes. Though I think it's also a fair statement that loads of D800 and D800E purchasers don't need the level of detail that is promised by the huge sensor... But well.. After a few years most people will realize that there's loads of things that you don't need in photography but buy anyways, e.g. Gitzo tripods when actually a usual Sirui can and will serve. Up to anyone to justify their purchase if they can afford it frankly. Just painful to see a person wielding an expensive camera but making the least of it sometimes..

    My suggestion is for the TS to do a proper scientific test that will be of use. Frankly speaking, the intentions may be good and dandy but it makes no difference if you post a series of pictures from which no one can really conclude anything of value. Cheers.
    Last edited by edutilos-; 29th May 2012 at 10:09 PM.

  13. #113

    Default Re: Nikon D800E -in pursuit of sharpness

    I appreciate what TS tried to show and the trouble he went through to do it.

    But this is not the best way to test a lens. A test would need to eliminate all variable parameters except for the one being tested. While test charts are one option, I prefer real life scenery, even if only it is less boring. Still, that would be stationary objects e.g. mosaic wall.

    And downsampling is a GREAT deal. You increase sharpness and reduce noise. The end result is much better IQ than can be possible on a D700, D3s or D4. Whoever says downsampling is a waste of all the resolution D800 has to offer is not seeing the entire picture and not optimising the use of the body.

    Check out mansurovs and diglloyd (if you have a subscription).

  14. #114
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    Default Re: Nikon D800E -in pursuit of sharpness

    LOL

    Good..

    I really wondered with some of the earlier 'technical points' presented....LOST

  15. #115

    Default Re: Nikon D800E -in pursuit of sharpness

    I am very sorry to see / read that some people here have no clue or not the eye to see/ just / analyze image problems / sharpness / resolution.

    Everyone who is implementing that the sharpness and resolution difference in the enlarged images below form the Nikon 24-120 and the Zeiss Planar came form wind has no idea what he is talking about.

    Nikon 24-120 VR at 50mm, F8 100%
    [IMG] Ni24_120_50corncrop100 by AchimReh, on Flickr[/IMG]

    Zeiss Planar 50 1.4 F8 ( all other condition/settings exactly same )
    [IMG] ZeissPlan50corncrop100 by AchimReh, on Flickr[/IMG]

  16. #116
    Senior Member edutilos-'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Nikon D800E -in pursuit of sharpness

    Quote Originally Posted by Achim Reh View Post
    I am very sorry to see / read that some people here have no clue or not the eye to see/ just / analyze image problems / sharpness / resolution.

    Everyone who is implementing that the sharpness and resolution difference in the enlarged images below form the Nikon 24-120 and the Zeiss Planar came form wind has no idea what he is talking about.
    Think you don't get what I mean.

    Can you say for sure that there was no wind? If you can, then good for you. I am glad you have such confidence in your eyesight (which has little to do with whether one can tell if the blur in the picture is caused by wind, sharpness of the lens, or anything. The 100% crops you post up mean nothing since the leaves and foliage are out in the open, therefore subject to the environmental conditions there. Unless you are Zhuge Liang and can predict the timing of the wind with perfect accuracy? ).

    As an passer-by, with the obvious knowledge that outdoor conditions are not within YOUR control, I have every reason to doubt if wind was present. Please note that I have never at any point said that "oh, the softness of a particular lens HAS to be because of the wind". What I'm saying is this: it might be the wind. We don't know. Please shoot in conditions where you can control and therefore run a fair test. I don't see why you feel the need to be so defensive or refer to me as "some people", especially since we're adults and this is an open forum.

    You might want to think about why most of the image comparisons on reputable sites use indoor shots for direct comparison (e.g. DP Review, Imaging Resource). Because they don't like to go in the sun? Do you also think that they don't know what they are doing and should go and find a pile of grass and leaves exposed to the elements? It is precisely because they shoot indoors, that no one can offer the explanation that wind plays a factor in such things. I don't think anyone will go so far as to say "oh, there may be a cat/bird/human shaking the table/chair/piles of thread in the picture". Cheers.
    Last edited by edutilos-; 30th May 2012 at 08:48 AM.

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by edutilos-

    Think you don't get what I mean.

    Can you say for sure that there was no wind? If you can, then good for you. I am glad you have such confidence in your eyesight (which has little to do with whether one can tell if the blur in the picture is caused by wind, sharpness of the lens, or anything. The 100% crops you post up mind nothing since the leaves and foliage are out in the open, therefore subject to the environmental conditions there. Unless you are Zhuge Liang and can predict the timing of the wind with perfect accuracy? ).

    As an passer-by, with the obvious knowledge that outdoor conditions are not within YOUR control, I have every reason to doubt if wind was present. Please note that I have never at any point said that "oh, the softness of a particular lens HAS to be because of the wind". What I'm saying is this: it might be the wind. We don't know. Please shoot in conditions where you can control and therefore run a fair test. I don't see why you feel the need to be so defensive or and refer to me as "some people", especially since we're adults and this is an open forum. Cheers.
    Zhuge Liang can't predict the wind.... No qualms with your other explaination but please don't overrate Zhuge Liang..
    Equipment: D800|D700|11-16|28-75|105 Micro VR|50 F1.4G|85 F1.8G
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  18. #118
    Senior Member edutilos-'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Nikon D800E -in pursuit of sharpness

    Quote Originally Posted by Cowseye View Post
    Zhuge Liang can't predict the wind.... No qualms with your other explaination but please don't overrate Zhuge Liang..
    You can read the discussion on this here, but I agree that it is debatable.

    Ok, back to topic, thanks!

  19. #119

    Default Re: Nikon D800E -in pursuit of sharpness

    Quote Originally Posted by Cowseye View Post
    Zhuge Liang can't predict the wind.... No qualms with your other explaination but please don't overrate Zhuge Liang..
    Who is Zhuge Liang? I only know Takeshi Kaneshiro with flimsy goattie..

  20. #120

    Default Re: Nikon D800E -in pursuit of sharpness

    Quote Originally Posted by Achim Reh View Post
    I am very sorry to see / read that some people here have no clue or not the eye to see/ just / analyze image problems / sharpness / resolution.

    Everyone who is implementing that the sharpness and resolution difference in the enlarged images below form the Nikon 24-120 and the Zeiss Planar came form wind has no idea what he is talking about.
    so the top one got wind, bottom one got no wind is it .... why do you compare a zoom to a prime, is this how you use a zoom lens ....

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