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Thread: Nikon D800E -in pursuit of sharpness

  1. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by UncleFai

    Which is why Ken Rockwell prefers the 5DIII.
    His reviews sometimes abit strange, for example when reviewing speedlites, he recommend using pop-up flash.....I was stunned haha.

    But that said, overall the 5DIII does seems to have the edge over this camera. Am waiting for a while longer before hitting the "buy" button.
    "Time is often the best editor" - Alex Webb

  2. #62
    Senior Member Cheesecake's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nikon D800E -in pursuit of sharpness

    ken rockwell?




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  3. #63

    Default Re: Nikon D800E -in pursuit of sharpness

    http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/nikon...art-2-a-8.html

    Quote Originally Posted by Achim Reh View Post
    Sorry to tell you , I don't think any zoom lens can use the potential of the D800E . See my post on D800E from today, including ( unsuccessful) test of the Nikon AF-S VR 24-120 ED on this camera.
    Quote Originally Posted by s1221ljc View Post
    This include the 24-70 f2.8 zoom lens? The 24-120 f4 is as sharp & listed in the Nikon suggested list of lens for sharpness. Perhaps you used the lens wrongly.... dont remember you setting the lens VR to off on the tripod? And I believe different zoom lens are optimised at different focal lengths & apertures?
    Other reviewers have used the 24-120 with the D800/E & have no issues, they are wrong & you are right? Checking out a lens individually on the camera for sharpness is one thing, comparing lenses is another & jeeeez, comparing a Zeiss prime with a Nikon zoom???

    Quote Originally Posted by Achim Reh View Post
    Compare to the Nikon 24-120 VR at 24mm , again full picture, 100% center crop, 100% corner crop

    [IMG] Ni24_120_24mfull by AchimReh, on Flickr[/IMG]

    [IMG] Ni24_120_24mcencrop100 by AchimReh, on Flickr[/IMG]

    [IMG] Ni24_120_24mcorncrop100 by AchimReh, on Flickr[/IMG]

    So far the first results of my lens and resolution test , Nikon D800E .

    Conclusion
    It becomes very clear to me that only the best lenses will deliver suitable results on this camera. Lenses which performed reasonable good in other tests,( like the example above, the nikon AF-S VR 24-120 ED)are not able to deliver the required sharpness and resolution for this camera. The 24-120 was performing well on my D700 , but on the D800E , the camera can not show its full potential, it is very much limited by the lens. The Zeiss Planar performed as expected, a razor sharp lens , it can't get any better. The Voigtlander Color Skopar performed reasonable well, given the fact that it costs only about 1/3 of the equivalent Zeiss lens. Value for money .
    One other thing became clear to me. This is not a point and shot camera. No shots without good tripod and detailed set up. Using this camera to its full potential is a bit like large format photography. If you don't want to do this, save yourself a lot of money and buy a D7000 or similar model. Otherwise you will never see the full potential of this outstanding camera .

    More test to come ;-))
    Last edited by s1221ljc; 13th May 2012 at 02:25 AM.

  4. #64

    Default Re: Nikon D800E -in pursuit of sharpness

    You are reading too much in the OP's post and missed his points. If you want to make full use of D800E sensor, best shoot with good prime lens with a sturdy tripod on a windless day. A walk-about lens isn't going to cover that. But anyone is entitled to the view that it is enough and people buying expensive primes have too much money to burn. Your credibility will also go up by showing what your 24-120 can do which I have by the way so I am in the middle so to speak.

    Quote Originally Posted by s1221ljc View Post
    http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/nikon...art-2-a-8.html

    Other reviewers have used the 24-120 with the D800/E & have no issues, they are wrong & you are right? Checking out a lens individually on the camera for sharpness is one thing, comparing lenses is another & jeeeez, comparing a Zeiss prime with a Nikon zoom???

  5. #65

    Default Re: Nikon D800E -in pursuit of sharpness

    so bro, after all's said n done, the point is...if you wana milk the full potential of a D800/800E, be prepared to splurge on top of the range lenses?

  6. #66

    Default Re: Nikon D800E -in pursuit of sharpness

    Quote Originally Posted by tankahn View Post
    You are reading too much in the OP's post and missed his points. If you want to make full use of D800E sensor, best shoot with good prime lens with a sturdy tripod on a windless day. A walk-about lens isn't going to cover that. But anyone is entitled to the view that it is enough and people buying expensive primes have too much money to burn. Your credibility will also go up by showing what your 24-120 can do which I have by the way so I am in the middle so to speak.
    Thank you tankahn, you got my point.
    To S1221 , If you look at my pictures, specially the corner 100% crops, you see the big difference between the Zeiss and the Nikon 24-120. The Nikon is just not sharp at the corners. Easy to see, or ?
    So, it depends of course on the expectations you have on your own pictures. For me, the 24-120 is just not sharp enough. I bought the D800E to get pictures that are razor sharp and have high resolution. Thats specially why I decided in the E version, not on the normal one. However, I also wanted to find out which of my lenses can give me the results I wanted. I have to say, the 24-120 just cant give me the quality I am looking for. Please also read the beginning of the post about the setup of the whole test. Everything targets maximum sharpness and resolution. And that's the main target for me ...it is also reflected in this postings title

  7. #67

    Default Re: Nikon D800E -in pursuit of sharpness

    Quote Originally Posted by Kopiko79 View Post
    so bro, after all's said n done, the point is...if you wana milk the full potential of a D800/800E, be prepared to splurge on top of the range lenses?
    Absolute correct ...but I can not talk about the D800, only about the E version. As all know, the E version has no AA filter...In fact is has, it is just constructed in a way that it does not blur the image . If Nikon would have taken it out totally, the optical path would have changed , this would lead to more problems. So, instead of the usual AA filter, where 2 elements do a small phase shift in horizontal and vertical direction, the D800E has 2 elements that do a phase shift in one horizontal direction, and then back in the opposite direction, which leads to zero shift.
    No AA filter makes a huge difference in sharpness and detail. For example, the Ricoh GXR with A12m Module , 12 meg, no AA filter, deliver finer details and more sharpness than the Nex 5 with 16 meg.
    Last edited by Achim Reh; 13th May 2012 at 08:49 AM.

  8. #68

    Default Re: Nikon D800E -in pursuit of sharpness

    Quote Originally Posted by Achim Reh View Post
    .... Please also read the beginning of the post about the setup of the whole test. Everything targets maximum sharpness and resolution. And that's the main target for me ...it is also reflected in this postings title
    You did not mentioned or you dont know you got to switch off the VR on that 24-120mm lens mounted on a tripod?

  9. #69

    Default Re: Nikon D800E -in pursuit of sharpness

    Quote Originally Posted by tankahn View Post
    You are reading too much in the OP's post and missed his points. If you want to make full use of D800E sensor, best shoot with good prime lens with a sturdy tripod on a windless day. A walk-about lens isn't going to cover that. But anyone is entitled to the view that it is enough and people buying expensive primes have too much money to burn. Your credibility will also go up by showing what your 24-120 can do which I have by the way so I am in the middle so to speak.
    You may think I dont have the credibility because I dont have the D800E to test & show? My point it, is Nikon or the experienced pros who did the tests & reviews misled & wrong? Why was the test not made with the 24-70 which is one of Nikon's best zoom? Or the 14-24 that's best for landscapes.
    Last edited by s1221ljc; 13th May 2012 at 11:54 AM.

  10. #70
    Senior Member Cheesecake's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nikon D800E -in pursuit of sharpness

    Quote Originally Posted by s1221ljc View Post
    You did not mentioned or you dont know you got to switch off the VR on that 24-120mm lens mounted on a tripod?
    hi, he has said that he has turned it off in an earlier reply when i asked him the same thing.
    You'll Never Walk Alone! - i have the best job in the world!

  11. #71

    Default Re: Nikon D800E -in pursuit of sharpness

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesecake View Post
    hi, he has said that he has turned it off in an earlier reply when i asked him the same thing.
    Thanks! It was not mentioned as he had said as in the beginning of the post about the setup of the whole test.
    Last edited by s1221ljc; 13th May 2012 at 11:10 AM.

  12. #72

    Default Re: Nikon D800E -in pursuit of sharpness

    Quote Originally Posted by Kopiko79 View Post
    so bro, after all's said n done, the point is...if you wana milk the full potential of a D800/800E, be prepared to splurge on top of the range lenses?
    Note you mention full potential. That said, of course..you need to match the best equipments to the best equipment to get the best result. Make sense?

  13. #73

    Default Re: Nikon D800E -in pursuit of sharpness

    Quote Originally Posted by TWmilkteaTW View Post
    Note you mention full potential. That said, of course..you need to match the best equipments to the best equipment to get the best result. Make sense?
    That kind of motherhood statements, dont need to test can say already

  14. #74
    Senior Member Cheesecake's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nikon D800E -in pursuit of sharpness

    Quote Originally Posted by s1221ljc View Post
    Thanks! It was not mentioned as he had said as in the beginning of the post about the setup of the whole test.
    right, which is why i asked the same question.
    You'll Never Walk Alone! - i have the best job in the world!

  15. #75

    Default Re: Nikon D800E -in pursuit of sharpness

    Quote Originally Posted by s1221ljc View Post
    You may think I dont have the credibility because I dont have the D800E to test & show? My point it, is Nikon or the experienced pros who did the tests & reviews misled & wrong? Why was the test not made with the 24-70 which is one of Nikon's best zoom?
    not stating the obvious, but buying the most expensive lens or the best german lens does not guarantee they will work on the D800 or D800E, so don't be surprise most of your lens stopped working when you buy a D800/E ....

    it is not that the D800 is demanding, but rather a different marketing strategy, one will need to spend some time finding a lens that works best with this body or any body for that matter, and that lens can jolly well be not expensive or german made ....

  16. #76
    Moderator daredevil123's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nikon D800E -in pursuit of sharpness

    Full potential?

    Any time you use a zoom lens, you are not realizing the full potential of ANY camera sensor. With the convenience, comes a price, especially a lens with as large a focal length range as the 24-120VR. Even when I compare the 14-24 to the cheapo Samyang 14, the prime wins hands down in the corners and edges. And this is true even for the old D700...

    The D800 and D800E are very good cameras. They amplify weaknesses in lenses. Doesn't mean these weaknesses were not there when using the D700. Just that now the picture is big enough for us to see the flaws.

    But seriously... I think it is more important to concentrate on more important things... like the subject and the story behind the pictures. When we look at a picture, we look at the whole picture... and not zoomed in to the corners and edges... Camera is just a tool and it helps us in our creative process. Lets not squabble over small things like this.
    Last edited by daredevil123; 13th May 2012 at 04:47 PM.

  17. #77
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    Default Re: Nikon D800E -in pursuit of sharpness

    Quote Originally Posted by DeepOne View Post
    not stating the obvious, but buying the most expensive lens or the best german lens does not guarantee they will work on the D800 or D800E, so don't be surprise most of your lens stopped working when you buy a D800/E ....

    it is not that the D800 is demanding, but rather a different marketing strategy, one will need to spend some time finding a lens that works best with this body or any body for that matter, and that lens can jolly well be not expensive or german made ....
    Well said. When had photography become pixel peeping and going down to the very pixel themselves? Where are the good photos which photographers are supposed to be producing?

  18. #78
    Moderator daredevil123's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nikon D800E -in pursuit of sharpness

    Quote Originally Posted by crazypaladin View Post
    Well said. When had photography become pixel peeping and going down to the very pixel themselves? Where are the good photos which photographers are supposed to be producing?
    I would like to find out too... :P

  19. #79

    Default Re: Nikon D800E -in pursuit of sharpness

    Well, different people have different taste, and also different targets of what they would like to achieve when taking photos. My target is and always was the highest possible quality. Even during film times, when I was shooting on large to ultra large format , building my own large forma cameras and shoot on the experimental "gigabit" film. Maybe this "obsession for sharpness and quality" comes form my job as an digital imaging expert in printing for over 20 years. Anyway, as said above, my targets are still the same, for every new camera / lens I have , I want to push it to the absolute limit of the highest possible quality. This was the whole purpose of this test. To me, a good picture is defined by the quality . Other people here might have other opinions and other tastes , and this is up to you . I am not saying that you are wrong and I am right. This is just my personal opinion.
    A fact is, however, that, the higher the resolution of a camera sensor is , the higher the resolution and sharpness of the lens has to be , otherwise the sensor is outperforming the lens , and it can not deliver the quality it was designed for. We have reached, in any case, almost the physical limits of optical resolution for a 24X36mm sensor size. Because the theoretical maximal lens resolution at a medium aperture of F8 is around 200 lp/mm. Opening up to a higher aperture theoretically increases the maximal resolution of a lens, but in this case other physical factors play an increasingly disturbing roll( to explain this , I think it would go a bit too far here).
    For those who are interested to get the highest possible quality. I will continue to post additional sharpness / resolution lens test and tips and tricks on the D800E under the review section.

    ( there are by the way, some other well known sites, who came to more or less the same result as I did, for example http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012...lens-selection )
    Last edited by Achim Reh; 13th May 2012 at 06:13 PM.

  20. #80

    Default Re: Nikon D800E -in pursuit of sharpness

    For those that find fault with the argument look at it this way.

    You are coloring in squares on graphing paper (sensor) with a paint brush (lens), at the moment your brush fits the squares so you get very nice and neatly filled in squares. Now you change your graph paper to one with much smaller squares but you are still using the same brush. The brush head is now bigger than the squares and it is impossible to fill in each square perfectly.

    It is fact. Will it change your overall IQ? If you are viewing it and printing it the same way, no. But then you really don't need to upgrade your body if that is all you needed. If you will be printing bigger or zooming in closer because you can, now you will see a difference.

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