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Thread: TCSS Story : Diploma vs Foreign Degree, and the current cost of living

  1. #1

    Default TCSS Story : Diploma vs Foreign Degree, and the current cost of living

    My colleague, good friend and ex-classmate is going to get married (finally).


    He went to an Australian uni, not sure which one be he stayed 3 years. Actually his course was 2 years 6 months or something but coz not enough accreditations and also to repeat some module or something, so needed to stay 3 years total. (plus he took the chance to travelling ard to pass time)


    Then it just hit me and i did some calculations....

    2.5 years spent there (plus another ~ 6 mths redo module, backpacking tour etc), course fees/makan/lodging/etc : Lets round it up to 120k. This is a slightly low figure, but just take it to be this value. Of course there are courses that cost more and courses that would cost less.

    I think when he came back from Australia he had great difficulty in finding a job coz that time 2003 SARs period mah. 6 months without a job - I finally recommended him the job in my company, so happened got vacancy. I heard from some contract staff that they went 9-12 months without a stable job, they did part-time mainly.


    The difference in pay between me as a dip holder and him is about 1k generally, through all the years. It's a GLC, so you know the pay structure etc, all pretty standardised and "I-know-you-know".

    Other than this 120k "cost", there is lost opportunities. Lets take my salary, say I earned 90k in those 3 years (again a very average figure for a dip).




    120k+90k = 210k. He takes in 16k per annum more in salary than me. So it'd take 13 years for him to net an advantage from the Uni course.

    Some people might say that's bullsh*t coz he could be earning a lot more like eg 20k per annum more and if he job hopped then it'd be more. Well that's not possible in this case, Since the both of us did not job-hop and we'll leave it at that as a direct A-B comparison....and somemore I have not factored in the interest from the study loan and that 6 months of not having a job during the 2003 short recession and you know during recession time the salaries were generally adjusted quite a lot.


    He's getting married now. And now you know how much housing has shot up, I am surprised that his 4-roomer in Macpherson Residency BTO costs S$450k on average (it's 420k to 480k IIRC from what he said). When I got married in 2005, a 9 course dinner with the cheapest menu was S$688 + 17% GST = S$800 per table @ Intercontinental Bugis. Now it's like 1.4k minimum. I know ang pows would "cover", but for those who have married you'd know how's the going like (not to say that i am stingy to treat people to my wedding!). And by hook or by crook, you have to go through the dinner.

    It was a friendly TCSS kopitiam session and I know it's quite bad, but it seems like young couples have it very much worse nowadays.
    And my friend is quite pissed that the local salaries are like stunted and that his so-called university degree certainly did not give him a better life as envisaged <- I know it definitely does not sound right to say that but well I'll cut him some slack. Govt is asking folks like him to have more babies.

  2. #2
    Senior Member edutilos-'s Avatar
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    Default Re: TCSS Story : Diploma vs Foreign Degree, and the current cost of living

    Quote Originally Posted by 2100 View Post
    I am surprised that his 4-roomer in Macpherson Residency BTO costs S$450k on average (it's 420k to 480k IIRC from what he said).
    Ouch. I would not even look at that option. Is it because it is a mature estate and the location is in greater demand?

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    Member eawtan's Avatar
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    Default Re: TCSS Story : Diploma vs Foreign Degree, and the current cost of living

    Not long later, your friend will be pressured to get a car (or upgraded car) .... debt will just increase and pressure not to lose his job ....

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    Default Re: TCSS Story : Diploma vs Foreign Degree, and the current cost of living

    "And my friend is quite pissed that the local salaries are like stunted and that his so-called university degree certainly did not give him a better life as envisaged "

    oops your friend thought a university education is going to make him more money ? paper chase mentality gone wrong . I have colleagues n friends from Primary School education to Poly education that make a whole lot more money than a graduate

    what is education meant to do in the first place ? It is meant PRIMARILY to enrich one's mind both through the encouragement of discovery and research in one's chosen field .... that piece of paper (to the employer) means that you should or are presumed to have an inquisitive enough mind , know how to do research , have at least some sense of planning and self-accounting etc etc etc

    a person without that University Degree or Diploma usually needs to demonstrate these or at least a few of these abilities which usually equates to starting somewhere lower on the ladder and working one's way up

    Unless of course it is a vocational (very skill specific ) degree/diploma where one needs a specific technical skill that an employer is looking for or needs that staff to be licensed or certified for

    During my time long ago, parents would encourage kids to "Tak Chek Jo Loh Koon" or "Study to be a doctor" .... anything else was a waste of time going to uni to them ..... many of us (my cohort at least) went to work after A levels or Poly or if we could afford it to university to pursue areas that interested or fascinated us without much thought of paper chase (those who were on paper chase then (70s) usually went to do Computer Science whether they had the aptitude for it or not)

    So today my buddies who did not go to school beyond poly or A levels are mostly businessmen doing a whole lot better than us salaried slaves

    My advise is : do what makes you happy .... it is the worst thing to be in a job that you do not enjoy . QUIT from it and find work that you actually love ...... old saying "If you want money, dont go looking for it so hard.... money will look for you

    And.... DON'T COMPARE ..... you will ALWAYS be disappointed and bitter no matter how well you do (there will ALWAYS be someone doing better than you).... just look STRAIGHT AHEAD and focus on yourself and your own happiness
    Last edited by ed9119; 29th April 2012 at 09:40 AM.
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    Default Re: TCSS Story : Diploma vs Foreign Degree, and the current cost of living

    Quote Originally Posted by 2100 View Post
    He's getting married now. And now you know how much housing has shot up, I am surprised that his 4-roomer in Macpherson Residency BTO costs S$450k on average (it's 420k to 480k IIRC from what he said).
    Gone are the days of affordable HDB housing. It is cheaper to buy a luxurious semi detached in triple security PGA golf course gated community in Horizon hills, Malaysia.

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    Senior Member Leong23's Avatar
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    Default

    "And my friend is quite pissed that the local salaries are like stunted and that his so-called university degree certainly did not give him a better life as envisaged "

    Many people are quite pissed that the new camera they brought and that his so-called pro lenses certainly did not give him a better photo to impress others.

    So they vent they anger on the camera makers.



    True story

    Last edited by Leong23; 29th April 2012 at 10:29 AM.

  7. #7

    Default Re: TCSS Story : Diploma vs Foreign Degree, and the current cost of living

    the push for higher education for a better career / pay in Sinkapore is Bullshit!!! dont waster your money upgrading your paper qualification unless you are sure that you can get a first-class degree or 2nd upper. on top of that, only for renowed uni

    only the scholar / honours first-class degree are welcome in Sinkapore for Sinkaporean

  8. #8

    Default Re: TCSS Story : Diploma vs Foreign Degree, and the current cost of living

    A degree doesn't means a better life. With so many FT coming in, the starting pay of degree holders have not increase much although inflation have made many things more expensive. The annual increment in many companies, especially mine, are lower than the inflation rate.

    The government want to make SG competitive by suppressing the wages with cheaper FT. There is nothing you can do.
    Many GLC use contract staff, which doesn't have any annual increment. ( I use to work as contract staff in one of them )
    They can stop renewing the contract and it doesn't count as retrenchment so it will not affect their "reputation".

    Your friend is "lucky" he can still afford to get marry. Many Singaporeans have to remain single if they don't want the debt burden.
    I eats, shoots & leaves

  9. #9

    Default Re: TCSS Story : Diploma vs Foreign Degree, and the current cost of living

    too many degrees in the market, so employers can say "hey, why should i pay you more when i can hire someone else similar out there?"

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    Moderator ed9119's Avatar
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    Default Re: TCSS Story : Diploma vs Foreign Degree, and the current cost of living

    Quote Originally Posted by dreaming View Post
    the push for higher education for a better career / pay in Sinkapore is Bullshit!!! dont waster your money upgrading your paper qualification unless you are sure that you can get a first-class degree or 2nd upper. on top of that, only for renowed uni

    only the scholar / honours first-class degree are welcome in Sinkapore for Sinkaporean
    it is SINGAPORE not SINKAPORE OR STINKAPORE... please respect your fellow Singaporeans and your own country even if some of us do not like the politics or government or papayas
    Last edited by ed9119; 29th April 2012 at 11:00 AM.
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  11. #11

    Default Re: TCSS Story : Diploma vs Foreign Degree, and the current cost of living

    Quote Originally Posted by ed9119 View Post
    it is SINGAPORE not SINKAPORE OR STINKAPORE... please respect your fellow Singaporeans and your own country even if some of us do not like the politics or government or papayas
    ok. noted

  12. #12

    Default Re: TCSS Story : Diploma vs Foreign Degree, and the current cost of living

    Quote Originally Posted by kei1309 View Post
    too many degrees in the market, so employers can say "hey, why should i pay you more when i can hire someone else similar out there?"
    it is a different world if you got a 1st Class Honours. they willing to pay top dollars, and super fast-paced career path. these are ppl they tasked to take over the leadership when the early 50's manager goes into retirement. every year they get promotion and increment in step of 500$. now 1st class honours starting salary is $3900 already

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    Member JohnJon82's Avatar
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    Default Re: TCSS Story : Diploma vs Foreign Degree, and the current cost of living

    Quote Originally Posted by dreaming View Post
    it is a different world if you got a 1st Class Honours. they willing to pay top dollars, and super fast-paced career path. these are ppl they tasked to take over the leadership when the early 50's manager goes into retirement. every year they get promotion and increment in step of 500$. now 1st class honours starting salary is $3900 already
    $500 increment per year cannot make it already. COE 90k, starting 4k, every year + $500 till when only can buy car...

    For degree and you doing what you studied at degree, only these few matters: MBBS, BDS, LLB, ACCA... other degrees Those get good results and got headhunt to financial sectors another version of stories.
    Canon EOS 600D | 17-40 L | 24-105 L | 100 L | 50mm 1.8II | BG-E8

  14. #14

    Default Re: TCSS Story : Diploma vs Foreign Degree, and the current cost of living

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnJon82 View Post
    $500 increment per year cannot make it already. COE 90k, starting 4k, every year + $500 till when only can buy car...

    For degree and you doing what you studied at degree, only these few matters: MBBS, BDS, LLB, ACCA... other degrees Those get good results and got headhunt to financial sectors another version of stories.
    havent include AWS. these super intelligent kids have 5-6months bonous. 3900 * 13 + 3900 * 6 = $74100 annual. ie only starting or 2-3years into their career..

    so better make sure can get a 1st class honour or 2nd class upper before pumping in your hard-earn money to upgrade paper qualification

  15. #15

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    There are those who subscribe to a higher qualification equals higher wages. While true for new job entrants, it is limited in ensuring the CEO position, that takes much more than a degree.

    Unless you're the 3%, you'll never make it to the CEO seat or for that matter, the upper echelons of the company regardless of the number of degrees you can lay your hands on.

    It'll be interesting if you can find a company run by someone without the X factor but there are a lot of people with degrees who are less than average and a degree does not create X factor people.

    There are exceptions, but most X factor people will be able to secure degrees and scholarships without much strain, if you need to seek alternate routes to secure a degree......you know what it means.

    While, as a parent, we want to provide our children with the skills and head start, we need to recognize and come to terms with their capabilities and nurture them, not just throw money into the fray and hope the fire burns brighter for that.

  16. #16

    Default Re: TCSS Story : Diploma vs Foreign Degree, and the current cost of living

    but you if you want to be a FBI agent, you need qualification, master degree at least...i want to be Jack Bauer but then again..........
    Objection !!!

  17. #17

    Default

    Maybe can consider becoming a secret service

  18. #18
    Senior Member Sion's Avatar
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    Default Re: TCSS Story : Diploma vs Foreign Degree, and the current cost of living

    Quote Originally Posted by Leong23 View Post
    Many people are quite pissed that the new camera they brought and that his so-called pro lenses certainly did not give him a better photo to impress others.
    No need to be impressed by photos.

    Impressed by the new camera can liao.

  19. #19
    Senior Member Sion's Avatar
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    Default Re: TCSS Story : Diploma vs Foreign Degree, and the current cost of living

    Quote Originally Posted by 2100 View Post
    My colleague, good friend and ex-classmate is going to get married (finally).

    He went to an Australian uni, not sure which one be he stayed 3 years. Actually his course was 2 years 6 months or something but coz not enough accreditations and also to repeat some module or something, so needed to stay 3 years total. (plus he took the chance to travelling ard to pass time)

    Then it just hit me and i did some calculations....

    2.5 years spent there (plus another ~ 6 mths redo module, backpacking tour etc), course fees/makan/lodging/etc : Lets round it up to 120k. This is a slightly low figure, but just take it to be this value. Of course there are courses that cost more and courses that would cost less.

    I think when he came back from Australia he had great difficulty in finding a job coz that time 2003 SARs period mah. 6 months without a job - I finally recommended him the job in my company, so happened got vacancy. I heard from some contract staff that they went 9-12 months without a stable job, they did part-time mainly.


    The difference in pay between me as a dip holder and him is about 1k generally, through all the years. It's a GLC, so you know the pay structure etc, all pretty standardised and "I-know-you-know".

    Other than this 120k "cost", there is lost opportunities. Lets take my salary, say I earned 90k in those 3 years (again a very average figure for a dip).

    120k+90k = 210k. He takes in 16k per annum more in salary than me. So it'd take 13 years for him to net an advantage from the Uni course.

    Some people might say that's bullsh*t coz he could be earning a lot more like eg 20k per annum more and if he job hopped then it'd be more. Well that's not possible in this case, Since the both of us did not job-hop and we'll leave it at that as a direct A-B comparison....and somemore I have not factored in the interest from the study loan and that 6 months of not having a job during the 2003 short recession and you know during recession time the salaries were generally adjusted quite a lot.
    Want to make more money faster should go and open a Char Kuey Tiao stall.

  20. #20

    Default Re: TCSS Story : Diploma vs Foreign Degree, and the current cost of living

    Quote Originally Posted by Sion View Post
    Want to make more money faster should go and open a Char Kuey Tiao stall.
    Heh heh....what's the story bro?


    Of course don't quote me totally, if you are looking at the statistics for degree holders in general positions/jobs, they still command a slightly higher pay than the Dip holders. And if you Really The Can esp in the private sector, they do open a lot of doors.

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