E300 - Birding tests part 2

Allan Teo · 24th December 2004

After posting my birding tests part 1 I sat down to
analyse the photos and see if there was anything
wrong with my photographing technique or
it is the camera.. I spent most of this week
staring at weather radar and chasing eagles all
over singapore.

My choice of subject and the time was not that
great.. evening shots and flying eagles which
love to appear from 5.00 to 7.00 PM and with
the cloudy sky in SG that makes it much more
difficult .

The next series of tests were all shot at ISO 200
and a shutter speed exceeding 1/500 using
a 50-200 MM E1 Oly Z Lens F2.8 to F3.5 at 200MM
All shots were done at 200MM.. Shutter speed was
high to rule out handshake.. Shots where taken with
a bean bag rested on the roof of my car where possible.

Comparative shots were taken with the D70 and
an 80-400 VR set to 300MM with the VR set to OFF and
ISO200.

At this setting the Nikon 80-400 is at F5.6 compared
to the Olympus at F3.5.. The oly is suppose to have
an advantage here.

Its 10.00 AM and I saw these pair of eagles soaring low
over their nest on Upper Serangoon Road.. I stopped
the car and took these shots. Sun is very strong
over the place and exposure is difficult.

All shots cropped 1:1

E300 photo - eagle flew higher afer I swapped from D70

D70 Photo

The E300 photo has to be reduced to 70% before it has the
same amount of detail of the D70

NExt we move over the Changi Village where there is
constantly lots of eagles flying overhead.
Time is around 6.30 PM, sun is setting from the east.

E-300 - Eagle is about 8 stories high - Teenage White belly

D70 - Eagle is about 5 stories high

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...m/nikeagle.jpg

pls clik on the link - Pic is not clubsnap standard

Thinking I am putting the E-300 at a 'disadvantage' I decided I
needed to find a place where I shoot the eagle at 1/1250 ISO200
and the eagle is flying in my FACE.

E-300 - REDUCED to 70%

E-300 original 100% photo. 1/1250 200MM ISO200
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...om/wbse300.jpg

For me the conclusion is that the photos from the E300 using
the 50-200MM lens NEEDS to be reduced 70% to be acceptable
all the time

In contrast the D70 and 80-400VR (no VR on) outperforms this
camera in birding very easily , even in low light and difficult
lighting conditions.

So far for non zoom shots where the subject moves very slowly
or stays still , I dont see much of a problem. As you can see
from other people's E300 sample shots.

My conclusion:
As far as birding is concerned.. the E300 is unsuitable.
For birding and nature photos, you need a zoom that can
reach 400MM. the 50-200MM F2.8-3.5 Zuiko lens is a very good lens..
and will achieve 400MM with the 2X crop factor.

however the E300 is at fault here because of the slow focusing
with the Zoom lens and slow startup time which cause me to
miss many shots of an suddenly approaching eagle

Since each 200MM photo must be reduced 70% to make it
look acceptable, I think this adds a lot of work and frustration
when compared to the D70 where the shot is either good or
bad.

I believe that the relatively noisy oly CCD and Olympus purposely
oversoftens all photos and details like downfeathers, shadowlines of far
away subjects are lost.

Also the requirement to shoot birding subjects in near
perfect conditions is not easy to bear.

Allan

chancy · 27th December 2004

Hello Allan,

This has been a very technical & thorough evaluation. It's heartening to note that attention is given to ensure a fair test between two platforms with so many variables to consider especially the weather & the subject.

An an E1 owner, I cannot speak for the E300. And not having the 50-200, I can only share what I have read from dpreviewers experience of this lens with the E1 & the little bits that may be relevant (and you may already know).

The 50-200's autofocus performance is boosted via the HLD2 Power Battery Holder. By itself, the autofocus does hunt (esp at the tele end) although focus accuracy is maintained when achieved. I wonder if the HLD3 for the E300 provides the power to boost autofocus performance.

Regardless, the fact that the D70 focuses faster without aids & is a testament to the positive overall system responsiveness of the camera.

Image quality-wise, I don't find Oly (E1) at ISO200 to be visibly noisy but have read that the noise patterns of Oly are easily sharpened with 3rd party products (but that complicates your workflow). I can attest that Oly images are generally soft out of the camera & I have to set sharpness to +3 to obtain images that appear sharp & detailed on-screen, same when shooting RAW.

BTW: Which autofocus mode is used, C-AF or S-AF. I find C-AF on the E1 pokey at times, but that may be because of my lack of understanding on how to operate it. I use S-AF+MF or MF most of the time.

This test with all the factors that you considered has highlighted weaknesses in the the E300 for bird photography.

Thanks for your time & effort in sharing & Happy New Year.

Cheers,

2100 · 27th December 2004

Hmm....i see i see. Now i know what are you talking about.

Actually the 80-400VR is not a fast lens, definitely slower than the bigma 50-500, which itself is already on the slow side. And neither are actually on the sharp side as far as birding quality/performance is concerned (ie ze fine feather/plummage details).

hammer_400 · 27th December 2004

can u post original uncropped pics?

Allan Teo · 28th December 2004

This has been a very technical & thorough evaluation. It's heartening to note that attention is given to ensure a fair test between two platforms with so many variables to consider especially the weather & the subject.

>> Yes I had to be sure it wasn't me.

An an E1 owner, I cannot speak for the E300. And not having the 50-200, I can only share what I have read from dpreviewers experience of this lens with the E1 & the little bits that may be relevant (and you may already know).

>> I think the E1 would excel here, just have to keep it at ISO200
>> but that may be a cause of conern as ISO400 on the E1 I heard
>> is noisy

The 50-200's autofocus performance is boosted via the HLD2 Power Battery Holder. By itself, the autofocus does hunt (esp at the tele end) although focus accuracy is maintained when achieved. I wonder if the HLD3 for the E300 provides the power to boost autofocus performance.

>> I think the 50-200 does not focus at all, it is the camera that
>> sends the command to the lens to move the motor.
>> with a higher voltage (9 volts I think) the motor drive on the lens will
>> move faster.
>> The E300 gets confused with fast objects very easily and mis-focuses..
>> If you get the battery handle for the E300, lens focus speed will
>> be faster but that does not mean focus will be correct.
>>

Regardless, the fact that the D70 focuses faster without aids & is a testament to the positive overall system responsiveness of the camera.

Image quality-wise, I don't find Oly (E1) at ISO200 to be visibly noisy but have read that the noise patterns of Oly are easily sharpened with 3rd party products (but that complicates your workflow). I can attest that Oly images are generally soft out of the camera & I have to set sharpness to +3 to obtain images that appear sharp & detailed on-screen, same when shooting RAW.

BTW: Which autofocus mode is used, C-AF or S-AF. I find C-AF on the E1 pokey at times, but that may be because of my lack of understanding on how to operate it. I use S-AF+MF or MF most of the time.

This test with all the factors that you considered has highlighted weaknesses in the the E300 for bird photography.

>> Yep, Since I owned it and it was suppose to replace my D70
>> I now concentrate on using the D70 more for this kind of shots.
>> The lens however is very good, as you can see from the photo
>> the eagle's beak is sharp as the rest of the body.. with the nikon
>> 70-200 or 80-400 DOF is not as good as the Zuiko lens.
>>
>> Also to take this kind of fast subjects where you may have to wait
>> a few hours and only given a few seconds to photograph, you need
>> a camera with super high speed frame per frame shots.. the E1 can do it
>> somwhat, but the most affordable for non-pros for this kind of
>> activity is the Canon 20D.

Thanks for your time & effort in sharing & Happy New Year.

>> glad to share -

Allan Teo · 29th December 2004

Originally Posted by hammer_400

can u post original uncropped pics?

Hi
Actually I only cropped away the BLUE SKY. I see no
value in showing the blue sky as the file becomes too
big.

The UN REDUCED photos are in the link if you
check.. since they are NOT in clubsnap standard
I cannot use the [img] option ut only the
url option.

Allan

nightpiper · 29th December 2004

just for the fun of it, here's one from me!

anyway, if i m not mistaken, the birds pics r pretty small to me, so can't really see much sharpness & details. on top of that, its backlighted, so anything under the wings becomes fuzzy due to hiding within the shadows (noise too). this is just my guess. any bird shooter care to share?

(ps. some 'arty farty' shots of mine can be found here http://photobucket.com/albums/v224/flatscreen/ )

chancy · 29th December 2004

Originally Posted by nightpiper

just for the fun of it, here's one from me!

anyway, if i m not mistaken, the birds pics r pretty small to me, so can't really see much sharpness & details. on top of that, its backlighted, so anything under the wings becomes fuzzy due to hiding within the shadows (noise too). this is just my guess. any bird shooter care to share?

(ps. some 'arty farty' shots of mine can be found here http://photobucket.com/albums/v224/flatscreen/ )

Hello Nightpiper,

Pleasant colours, contented looking bird. Well, there's a difference between a willing perched bird & an oblivious flying bird :-)

.. and homely & pleasing shots from photobuckets. Nice car you've got there :-) The close focusing 14-54 subconciously makes you take psuedo macro shots (but I'm off topic here).

Cheers,

nightpiper · 29th December 2004

dun be deceived by its looks. its chirp is worse than its peck!!

next time, we can go for a spin in 'my car'; remote control ver. that is.

back to the origin of this thread, why do u think the pics lack details & sharpness?

Allan Teo · 30th December 2004

Originally Posted by nightpiper

just for the fun of it, here's one from me!

anyway, if i m not mistaken, the birds pics r pretty small to me, so can't really see much sharpness & details. on top of that, its backlighted, so anything under the wings becomes fuzzy due to hiding within the shadows (noise too). this is just my guess. any bird shooter care to share?

(ps. some 'arty farty' shots of mine can be found here http://photobucket.com/albums/v224/flatscreen/ )

Hi
Sure understand that, but comparing to my D70, D70 easily
get more detail under same conditions and also in difficult conditions
D70 gets the shot more..

The E300 can get a great photo that beat the D70 , (see the
last e300 eagle photo) but a tremendous effort must be made
that the camera performs only in superb conditions,
shutter > 1200, ISO200, bright sun.

Catching a bird in flight is very very difficult. The E300 is too
slow in focusing and too slow in saving photos , so you
will miss a lot of opportunities.. I am sure the E1 would
have done much better.

I am going back to shoot with an E1 and I think it will get wonderful
photos.. the Eagles are very hungry after these days of bad weather
if tomorrow is fine, it would be a fantastic day.

Allan

nightpiper · 30th December 2004

all the best for a good weather!!

i do understand that u can't always get the most ideal condition to take a shot. maybe u can try a studio environment for both DSLRs then write us all a mini review?

i also think the E1 with C-AF will fair better than the E300. keep us posted again.

24th December 2004	#1
Allan Teo Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 520	E300 - Birding tests part 2 After posting my birding tests part 1 I sat down to analyse the photos and see if there was anything wrong with my photographing technique or it is the camera.. I spent most of this week staring at weather radar and chasing eagles all over singapore. My choice of subject and the time was not that great.. evening shots and flying eagles which love to appear from 5.00 to 7.00 PM and with the cloudy sky in SG that makes it much more difficult . The next series of tests were all shot at ISO 200 and a shutter speed exceeding 1/500 using a 50-200 MM E1 Oly Z Lens F2.8 to F3.5 at 200MM All shots were done at 200MM.. Shutter speed was high to rule out handshake.. Shots where taken with a bean bag rested on the roof of my car where possible. Comparative shots were taken with the D70 and an 80-400 VR set to 300MM with the VR set to OFF and ISO200. At this setting the Nikon 80-400 is at F5.6 compared to the Olympus at F3.5.. The oly is suppose to have an advantage here. Its 10.00 AM and I saw these pair of eagles soaring low over their nest on Upper Serangoon Road.. I stopped the car and took these shots. Sun is very strong over the place and exposure is difficult. All shots cropped 1:1 E300 photo - eagle flew higher afer I swapped from D70 D70 Photo The E300 photo has to be reduced to 70% before it has the same amount of detail of the D70 NExt we move over the Changi Village where there is constantly lots of eagles flying overhead. Time is around 6.30 PM, sun is setting from the east. E-300 - Eagle is about 8 stories high - Teenage White belly D70 - Eagle is about 5 stories high http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...m/nikeagle.jpg pls clik on the link - Pic is not clubsnap standard Thinking I am putting the E-300 at a 'disadvantage' I decided I needed to find a place where I shoot the eagle at 1/1250 ISO200 and the eagle is flying in my FACE. E-300 - REDUCED to 70% E-300 original 100% photo. 1/1250 200MM ISO200 http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...om/wbse300.jpg For me the conclusion is that the photos from the E300 using the 50-200MM lens NEEDS to be reduced 70% to be acceptable all the time In contrast the D70 and 80-400VR (no VR on) outperforms this camera in birding very easily , even in low light and difficult lighting conditions. So far for non zoom shots where the subject moves very slowly or stays still , I dont see much of a problem. As you can see from other people's E300 sample shots. My conclusion: As far as birding is concerned.. the E300 is unsuitable. For birding and nature photos, you need a zoom that can reach 400MM. the 50-200MM F2.8-3.5 Zuiko lens is a very good lens.. and will achieve 400MM with the 2X crop factor. however the E300 is at fault here because of the slow focusing with the Zoom lens and slow startup time which cause me to miss many shots of an suddenly approaching eagle Since each 200MM photo must be reduced 70% to make it look acceptable, I think this adds a lot of work and frustration when compared to the D70 where the shot is either good or bad. I believe that the relatively noisy oly CCD and Olympus purposely oversoftens all photos and details like downfeathers, shadowlines of far away subjects are lost. Also the requirement to shoot birding subjects in near perfect conditions is not easy to bear. Allan Last edited by Allan Teo; 24th December 2004 at 10:13 PM.

29th December 2004	#7
nightpiper Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 1,840	just for the fun of it, here's one from me! anyway, if i m not mistaken, the birds pics r pretty small to me, so can't really see much sharpness & details. on top of that, its backlighted, so anything under the wings becomes fuzzy due to hiding within the shadows (noise too). this is just my guess. any bird shooter care to share? (ps. some 'arty farty' shots of mine can be found here http://photobucket.com/albums/v224/flatscreen/ ) Last edited by nightpiper; 29th December 2004 at 12:06 PM.

27th December 2004	#2
chancy Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Northern Singapore Posts: 556	Hello Allan, This has been a very technical & thorough evaluation. It's heartening to note that attention is given to ensure a fair test between two platforms with so many variables to consider especially the weather & the subject. An an E1 owner, I cannot speak for the E300. And not having the 50-200, I can only share what I have read from dpreviewers experience of this lens with the E1 & the little bits that may be relevant (and you may already know). The 50-200's autofocus performance is boosted via the HLD2 Power Battery Holder. By itself, the autofocus does hunt (esp at the tele end) although focus accuracy is maintained when achieved. I wonder if the HLD3 for the E300 provides the power to boost autofocus performance. Regardless, the fact that the D70 focuses faster without aids & is a testament to the positive overall system responsiveness of the camera. Image quality-wise, I don't find Oly (E1) at ISO200 to be visibly noisy but have read that the noise patterns of Oly are easily sharpened with 3rd party products (but that complicates your workflow). I can attest that Oly images are generally soft out of the camera & I have to set sharpness to +3 to obtain images that appear sharp & detailed on-screen, same when shooting RAW. BTW: Which autofocus mode is used, C-AF or S-AF. I find C-AF on the E1 pokey at times, but that may be because of my lack of understanding on how to operate it. I use S-AF+MF or MF most of the time. This test with all the factors that you considered has highlighted weaknesses in the the E300 for bird photography. Thanks for your time & effort in sharing & Happy New Year. Cheers,

27th December 2004	#3
2100 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 3,116	Hmm....i see i see. Now i know what are you talking about. Actually the 80-400VR is not a fast lens, definitely slower than the bigma 50-500, which itself is already on the slow side. And neither are actually on the sharp side as far as birding quality/performance is concerned (ie ze fine feather/plummage details).

27th December 2004	#4
hammer_400 Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Sg Posts: 692	can u post original uncropped pics?

28th December 2004	#5
Allan Teo Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 520	This has been a very technical & thorough evaluation. It's heartening to note that attention is given to ensure a fair test between two platforms with so many variables to consider especially the weather & the subject. >> Yes I had to be sure it wasn't me. An an E1 owner, I cannot speak for the E300. And not having the 50-200, I can only share what I have read from dpreviewers experience of this lens with the E1 & the little bits that may be relevant (and you may already know). >> I think the E1 would excel here, just have to keep it at ISO200 >> but that may be a cause of conern as ISO400 on the E1 I heard >> is noisy The 50-200's autofocus performance is boosted via the HLD2 Power Battery Holder. By itself, the autofocus does hunt (esp at the tele end) although focus accuracy is maintained when achieved. I wonder if the HLD3 for the E300 provides the power to boost autofocus performance. >> I think the 50-200 does not focus at all, it is the camera that >> sends the command to the lens to move the motor. >> with a higher voltage (9 volts I think) the motor drive on the lens will >> move faster. >> The E300 gets confused with fast objects very easily and mis-focuses.. >> If you get the battery handle for the E300, lens focus speed will >> be faster but that does not mean focus will be correct. >> Regardless, the fact that the D70 focuses faster without aids & is a testament to the positive overall system responsiveness of the camera. Image quality-wise, I don't find Oly (E1) at ISO200 to be visibly noisy but have read that the noise patterns of Oly are easily sharpened with 3rd party products (but that complicates your workflow). I can attest that Oly images are generally soft out of the camera & I have to set sharpness to +3 to obtain images that appear sharp & detailed on-screen, same when shooting RAW. BTW: Which autofocus mode is used, C-AF or S-AF. I find C-AF on the E1 pokey at times, but that may be because of my lack of understanding on how to operate it. I use S-AF+MF or MF most of the time. This test with all the factors that you considered has highlighted weaknesses in the the E300 for bird photography. >> Yep, Since I owned it and it was suppose to replace my D70 >> I now concentrate on using the D70 more for this kind of shots. >> The lens however is very good, as you can see from the photo >> the eagle's beak is sharp as the rest of the body.. with the nikon >> 70-200 or 80-400 DOF is not as good as the Zuiko lens. >> >> Also to take this kind of fast subjects where you may have to wait >> a few hours and only given a few seconds to photograph, you need >> a camera with super high speed frame per frame shots.. the E1 can do it >> somwhat, but the most affordable for non-pros for this kind of >> activity is the Canon 20D. Thanks for your time & effort in sharing & Happy New Year. >> glad to share -

30th December 2004	#11
nightpiper Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 1,840	all the best for a good weather!! i do understand that u can't always get the most ideal condition to take a shot. maybe u can try a studio environment for both DSLRs then write us all a mini review? i also think the E1 with C-AF will fair better than the E300. keep us posted again.