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Thread: What problems do you face when you start out in photography?

  1. #21

    Default Re: What problems do you face when you start out in photography?

    I wonder if you were the one that quit after 1 day of internship.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed9119

    life's too comfortable for you because there seems to be so many options for you to choose from at your age ..... so cherish this luxury ... the irony of this is that one seldom appreciates the availability and freedom of these choices available

    NS will be good for you
    Yeah. One part of me says NS is gonna be terrible. The other part wants it to come quickly so I will be forced to change. Many teens wished their life was like mine. I on the other hand rather have it rough.

    Either way, I'm sure people like Hart and Ed have something to share, like when Hart first settled in Singapore? Care to share some stories?

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    Quote Originally Posted by eleveninth
    I wonder if you were the one that quit after 1 day of internship.
    Probably not. It was more than a day

  4. #24

    Default Re: What problems do you face when you start out in photography?

    Quote Originally Posted by seezhijie View Post
    I had a trainer who taught me the basics of the exposure triangle. After that, he left for NIE to pursue his dreams of becoming a teacher. When he returned (as a trainee teacher), I realised I'm better than him already.
    Ego at work again? The moment you think you are better than someone else you had shut off any chance of learning from that person.

    Quote Originally Posted by seezhijie View Post
    As for the management side, my teachers didn't teach me how to manage things. They give quite a fair bit of problems, so I have to clean it up for them to make sure the club continues running.
    Again?

    Big ego is a sure way to a small heart.

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  5. #25

    Default Re: What problems do you face when you start out in photography?

    Hi TS, i feel in photography you need to experience life 1st before you can capture photos with character and convey the emotions of the subject.

    sometimes just a different angle to a shoot makes alot of differance. If u just mess around with random shooting, without experiences in life, you will hit a brick wall.

    so open up your mind and do some part time job. It will also expose you to different ppl with different traits. It will go a long way in teaching you how to handle difficult clients. Social skills is just as impt as technical skills.

  6. #26

    Default Re: What problems do you face when you start out in photography?

    I am roughly your age as well, still young, still active. I take photography seriously, but it's just a hobby for me. Sometimes i feel that i should just be a full time photog. But after thinking for quite sometime, i feel that being a full time photographer requires alot of money to get started properly. I didn't come from a wealthy family. The money i used to get my gears is from my own. (except for my first camera)

    My mother at first didn't support my decision, asks me to work part time during my holidays, and i did. I worked as a salesperson for 2 months. Now, it may sound like a very low paying job, well it is actually but what's more important is that it gave me the perfect environment to test my ability to communicate, negotiate, finalize and closing a deal. I'm being frank now, i represent cocoatrees. Selling chocolates and stuffs at lucky plaza. You know where that is, the environment, is nasty. Full of aunties and maids trying to bargain out of me. That is the hard part, i failed alot of times but regained my confidence and negotiate. The job exposed me to all sorts of people, to angry ones to loud talkative ones to no-discount-no-buy ones etc etc.

    What i'm trying to say is you do not need a master or experienced photographer to teach you the ropes. Technical or social skills, both can be learned and taught based on everyday life. Be it working in macdonalds, cocoatrees, converse, fairprice, all that makes you interact with strangers. It will give you a good environment to test your abilities. As for technical aspects of photography, you just need to go out and shoot. Watch youtube and shoot and shoot and shoot.

    After having my own gears that is bought using my own cash that i work for, my mother finally supported me. I got into a internship recently for a month, good experience. That's it. I work as a freelance, both photography and in visual effects. I got a couple of vfx jobs that pays good and then i asked myself again, this could support me for a month! I then looked at my photo gears and said "i should just focus on vfx, since photography is just my hobby". That's my story, i still shoot frequently and whenever a person pitches a job to me, i will gladly take up the assignment (provided reasonable copyrights) because i love what i do, not because of money. Since i already have the base income coming from my vfx job, the extra money earned from the photography side can be put inside my savings for future use.

    Now comes to you, go and talk to your mom. explain the situation. And stop working on internships because it's really BS (no offense). I gotta agree it's good but doing it for so many times is just not good. Work part time elsewhere that doesn't involve photography. No matter how many clients you face, they have a mask on them. Go out, talk to strangers and meet really nasty people, that way you will know how to deal with real life situations where you must immediately think of a solution on the spot.

    I hope that my message isn't too long and draggy and sometimes makes no sense because i didn't sleep at all. Burning midnight oil for job assignments.

    Cheers
    Last edited by Sgdevilzz; 30th March 2012 at 11:57 AM.

  7. #27

    Default Re: What problems do you face when you start out in photography?

    Quote Originally Posted by seezhijie View Post
    Yeah. One part of me says NS is gonna be terrible. The other part wants it to come quickly so I will be forced to change. Many teens wished their life was like mine. I on the other hand rather have it rough.

    Either way, I'm sure people like Hart and Ed have something to share, like when Hart first settled in Singapore? Care to share some stories?
    Quoting from Hart : "Some come and learn, they absorb and they apply. Some come and listen but they think they know so much that whatever you told them, it is just arrive outside the ears and never got in"
    It's not advisable to force someone to change when one is not ready...he/she might just "snapped" and never recover. Alot of big "kor kor" here is giving you valuable advice, receive them positively and apply them. No use listening to their life stories as a spectator...when you yourself have the power to write your own!
    Cheers!!

  8. #28
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    Default Re: What problems do you face when you start out in photography?

    I will share 1 bit about me, I'm 32, and my parents still worry. You think it goes away with age? No it doesn't, can you imagine yourself with kids and not being worried at all about their mental, physical & career well being till you die?

    I don't know if your previous & current companies were reputable or simply half-arsed kinds, but let me express my personal opinion.

    If my company hires you as an intern and sends you out to shoot but pay you no remuneration then I'm exploiting you. If you agree to such a deal (exploited or remunerated) then you should be happy to be shooting in an official capacity vs simply gatecrashing an event as a GWC. It is a world of difference to having to keep to a brief when out on a job vs no brief, no job, just shooting what you like. Interns have to treat being sent out to shoot as a representative of the company, as a privilege. It means I think you're good enough to cover such and such an event. But you do not treat it as a right. Neither do I want you to be thinking you're too good for it. If you think you know so much then don't be an intern, go be an actual photographer. And if I can tell you're not at a level to be an actual photographer, then I'll just classify you as a wannabe photographer joke. If you want to fake humility, I wouldn't feel happy teaching you so you can continue to sweep the floor. If you're not interested in what you're doing in my company, I would not want to keep you around either.

    Do you think you're Rambo, one-man show? Think you're a superhero who saves everyone in the worst condition? Think the world cannot function without you? Think everyone misunderstands your actions and words? Claim to have an unique inability to communicate?

    The person above you might not always know what is happening, how to solve a problem nor to foresee complications. If you were the one to help solve these problems you can either 1) crow about your own achievements & downplay others' significance or 2) help raise your team's involvement & empathise the importance of team work. What kind of person you want to be in life, what kind of life you want to lead, how you want to be perceived, it's up to you. One thing NS gives is falling crap. Those 2 years will really decide which path you take. Whether you want to be the kind of leader everyone hates for taking credit or the leader who everyone follows to be inspired.

    I will share 1 other thing. As of this instance, you do not have the qualities I would want in my intern/assistant.
    Last edited by foxtwo; 30th March 2012 at 01:38 PM.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by icceman

    It's not advisable to force someone to change when one is not ready...he/she might just "snapped" and never recover. Alot of big "kor kor" here is giving you valuable advice, receive them positively and apply them. No use listening to their life stories as a spectator...when you yourself have the power to write your own!
    Cheers!!
    Sometimes we don't need a reason to do things. I know there's no point listening to other's stories too, but I just want to. Just like how I chose a hobby instead of having none at all. It's not necessary, but I just chose it

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    Quote Originally Posted by foxtwo
    I will share 1 bit about me, I'm 32, and my parents still worry. You think it goes away with age? No it doesn't, can you imagine yourself with kids and not being worried at all about their mental, physical & career well being till you die?

    I don't know if your previous & current companies were reputable or simply half-arsed kinds, but let me express my personal opinion.

    If my company hires you as an intern and sends you out to shoot but pay you no remuneration then I'm exploiting you. If you agree to such a deal (exploited or remunerated) then you should be happy to be shooting in an official capacity vs simply gatecrashing an event as a GWC. It is a world of difference to having to keep to a brief when out on a job vs no brief, no job, just shooting what you like. Interns have to treat being sent out to shoot as a representative of the company, as a privilege. It means I think you're good enough to cover such and such an event. But you do not treat it as a right. Neither do I want you to be thinking you're too good for it. If you think you know so much then don't be an intern, go be an actual photographer. And if I can tell you're not at a level to be an actual photographer, then I'll just classify you as a wannabe photographer joke. If you want to fake humility, I wouldn't feel happy teaching you so you can continue to sweep the floor. If you're not interested in what you're doing in my company, I would not want to keep you around either.

    Do you think you're Rambo, one-man show? Think you're a superhero who saves everyone in the worst condition? Think the world cannot function without you? Think everyone misunderstands your actions and words? Claim to have an unique inability to communicate?

    The person above you might not always know what is happening, how to solve a problem nor to foresee complications. If you were the one to help solve these problems you can either 1) crow about your own achievements & downplay others' significance or 2) help raise your team's involvement & empathise the importance of team work. What kind of person you want to be in life, what kind of life you want to lead, how you want to be perceived, it's up to you. One thing NS gives is falling crap. Those 2 years will really decide which path you take. Whether you want to be the kind of leader everyone hates for taking credit or the leader who everyone follows to be inspired.

    I will share 1 other thing. As of this instance, you do not have the qualities I would want in my intern/assistant.
    I realise there's a bit of misunderstanding here. I never said I'm good. I just said I realised I'm better than my previous trainer already, in terms of photography if it matters. Usually that's something I won't say. But since we're talking about facts here I'll usually swallow all my qualities and say things from a third person's perspective. In fact, one thing that's been stopping me is that I know I ain't good enough. But when it comes to facts, modesty doesn't matters. If I had left out the part stating that I'm better than my trainer in photography already, people will be telling me to learn as much as I can from him while I still can, which is something I can't.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sgdevilzz
    I am roughly your age as well, still young, still active. I take photography seriously, but it's just a hobby for me. Sometimes i feel that i should just be a full time photog. But after thinking for quite sometime, i feel that being a full time photographer requires alot of money to get started properly. I didn't come from a wealthy family. The money i used to get my gears is from my own. (except for my first camera)

    My mother at first didn't support my decision, asks me to work part time during my holidays, and i did. I worked as a salesperson for 2 months. Now, it may sound like a very low paying job, well it is actually but what's more important is that it gave me the perfect environment to test my ability to communicate, negotiate, finalize and closing a deal. I'm being frank now, i represent cocoatrees. Selling chocolates and stuffs at lucky plaza. You know where that is, the environment, is nasty. Full of aunties and maids trying to bargain out of me. That is the hard part, i failed alot of times but regained my confidence and negotiate. The job exposed me to all sorts of people, to angry ones to loud talkative ones to no-discount-no-buy ones etc etc.

    What i'm trying to say is you do not need a master or experienced photographer to teach you the ropes. Technical or social skills, both can be learned and taught based on everyday life. Be it working in macdonalds, cocoatrees, converse, fairprice, all that makes you interact with strangers. It will give you a good environment to test your abilities. As for technical aspects of photography, you just need to go out and shoot. Watch youtube and shoot and shoot and shoot.

    After having my own gears that is bought using my own cash that i work for, my mother finally supported me. I got into a internship recently for a month, good experience. That's it. I work as a freelance, both photography and in visual effects. I got a couple of vfx jobs that pays good and then i asked myself again, this could support me for a month! I then looked at my photo gears and said "i should just focus on vfx, since photography is just my hobby". That's my story, i still shoot frequently and whenever a person pitches a job to me, i will gladly take up the assignment (provided reasonable copyrights) because i love what i do, not because of money. Since i already have the base income coming from my vfx job, the extra money earned from the photography side can be put inside my savings for future use.

    Now comes to you, go and talk to your mom. explain the situation. And stop working on internships because it's really BS (no offense). I gotta agree it's good but doing it for so many times is just not good. Work part time elsewhere that doesn't involve photography. No matter how many clients you face, they have a mask on them. Go out, talk to strangers and meet really nasty people, that way you will know how to deal with real life situations where you must immediately think of a solution on the spot.

    I hope that my message isn't too long and draggy and sometimes makes no sense because i didn't sleep at all. Burning midnight oil for job assignments.

    Cheers
    Alright. Actually that's also part reason why I didn't take a job now. I'll be burning midnight oil like you when I get into poly. My friends who are already studying in poly and taking the same course (I did not choose this course because of them) are all really stressed out, and they regret not resting well before school started.

  12. #32

    Default Re: What problems do you face when you start out in photography?

    Quote Originally Posted by seezhijie View Post
    Alright. Actually that's also part reason why I didn't take a job now. I'll be burning midnight oil like you when I get into poly. My friends who are already studying in poly and taking the same course (I did not choose this course because of them) are all really stressed out, and they regret not resting well before school started.
    Alamak... since when the society boys become so soft? rest when you are dead... I find resting such a waste of time. Of course, getting enough rest is important but I am saying resting after the good 8 hours sleep is bs when you are young.

    I haven't stop since I go to school and I found work before finish my uni and work through my uni life... It is not the money I was after...

    There are things in life that makes you a better person or worst... it is at the end your choice...

    I was 17 once I thought I was a superhero... I thought I can conquer the world... see I am 33 this year, and I still hasn't conquer the world???

    As I mentioned all the time on my talks or online, I won't give direct answer to problems for most of time, but I am happy to give fundamental things to help people to think for themselves to create their own solution.

    You can't build a solid house without solid foundation... I can tell you the solution to your problem (building your house), but without the foundation, Your problems will be bigger and bigger and once again, almost all problems are unique.

    To be entirely honest, I prefer not to have you in my next talk until you sort out your issue at home. I am wasting my time and you are taking someone else slot who is better in learning. I think your ears ooze your huge ego and none of my advise done anything.

    Regards,

    Hart

  13. #33
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    Default Re: What problems do you face when you start out in photography?

    Quote Originally Posted by seezhijie View Post
    I realise there's a bit of misunderstanding here. I never said I'm good. I just said I realised I'm better than my previous trainer already, in terms of photography if it matters. Usually that's something I won't say. But since we're talking about facts here I'll usually swallow all my qualities and say things from a third person's perspective. In fact, one thing that's been stopping me is that I know I ain't good enough. But when it comes to facts, modesty doesn't matters. If I had left out the part stating that I'm better than my trainer in photography already, people will be telling me to learn as much as I can from him while I still can, which is something I can't.
    It's never about being better or worse than someone. Especially since you're on different paths. If your trainer was only responsible for teaching basic skills, he might not have needed to know many techniques. You on the other hand to successfully shoot events may have had to learn flash much more extensively. Skill set wise, you may say that you know a lot more. And in a way, have surpassed what he can teach you. Yes, that's a fact, but put into context. I don't know if it's because you did not express it in such a way, or if you are really so obtuse in real life. But it would be extremely disappointing if your ex-trainer read your initial post and feel like he had such an ungrateful student.

    Whatever the case, whether you want to deal in facts or emotions, you have to respect your teachers. If you continue this kind of attitude, then who would want to teach you anything? Oh, once he sucks me dry of my skills he'll move on and say, 'I have surpassed you', 'nothing more to learn from you'. Then what for I impart my hard earned skills to you, what for I keep you as my student? Modesty to you may not matter, but humility to teachers does. You are setting a very poor track record of yourself, and should be aware of it. Unless you really have some talent in photography and people can 'overlook' your personality, expect some hard roads ahead because the professional network is quite small in Singapore.

    If you take the stance that you're changing teachers/mentors because you want to learn more, than believe in it 100%. But I think few here has that impression of you, sad to say, our opinion is mostly set in stone. That Hart has actually given up on you I also dunno what to say liao.

  14. #34
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    Default Re: What problems do you face when you start out in photography?

    Only one advise I can offer to you.

    Shoot more, talk less.




    if you want to talk more, can, just make sure you can shoot better than the way you talk.
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    I was taking pictures of a monkey in pasir ris park and this random uncle demanded I delete the photos because he though I was taking pictures of him
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  16. #36
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    Default Re: What problems do you face when you start out in photography?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fudgecakes View Post
    I was taking pictures of a monkey in pasir ris park and this random uncle demanded I delete the photos because he though I was taking pictures of him
    you should show him the photos you took, and apologize to him that you took his photos accidentally.
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  17. #37

    Default Re: What problems do you face when you start out in photography?

    Ah.. I thought problems as in skill, techniques etc..

    Seezhijie,

    You don't like your first two jobs, but will this third job give you a life-long happiness? I doubt so. If you quit too early, you'll never know what opportunity might come in the future. Even learning to clean a studio will help you to appreciate yours when you built your own in the future. Besides, if cleaning is easy, you won't hear so much problems between maids and employers I don't say that you cannot quit (hell everyone switches job at least once in their lifetime), but I hope you did evaluate everything properly, not only on the short term, but on the long term as well. Remember, having problem at work is how you learn and grow. Skill, and character.

    You don't always have to agree with your parents, but you better respect them.

    It's good that you started photography from such an early age. You can still learn a lot. Around your age, I wanted to start too, but I didn't have the luxury to do so - until a year ago.

    I wish you all the best in your struggles.

    PS; to answer the thread title, my first problem was budget. The second problem (now) is time, and my horrible skill. Recently trying to shoot at large aperture, turned out that the thin dof is quite challenging to handle.
    Last edited by SilentSeth; 30th March 2012 at 09:06 PM.

  18. #38
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    I started off at 21yo, as a full time student n part time free lance photographer's assistant.

    I've finished NS n thus i feel tat my attitude, discipline n commitment level is there. I wrote in to different studios n literally begged to get a chance to even sweep the studios jus to b close to witness how a professional shoot take place.

    I believe you make your own luck n with the right drive, mindset n attitude, things will n can happen.

    Indeed so, i had the greatest honour n priviledge to work for an American photographer who is based in singapore. He gave me many opportunity to assist him on many assignments n told me to keep the qns i mite haf when watching him execute the shoots til at the end of the day.

    Needless to say i've plenty of qns n he selflessly guided n xplained to me.

    I would think tat w the right attitude, drive n mindset, anyone can succeed.
    Last edited by Cheesecake; 30th March 2012 at 09:01 PM.
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    Default Re: What problems do you face when you start out in photography?

    doing photography as a career, is not as simple as just taking photos, photoshopping and giving photos...
    get the ppas guidebook/handbook. it will be a nice place to start.

    u mentioned client management etc, these are skills you can learn beyond photography internships. any general job will require the same skillset in terms of administration and social PR and marketing skills. so dont just dismiss other learning opportunities as "not my area". normally little things add up a lot.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by seezhijie

    I don't mind carrying equipment to learn. I worked as an assistant a few times for studio shoots, just to find out how things go. But I realised it's not what I want so I'm back to events now.
    Nah~ People don't spoonfeed me in school. I had a trainer who taught me the basics of the exposure triangle. After that, he left for NIE to pursue his dreams of becoming a teacher. When he returned (as a trainee teacher), I realised I'm better than him already. Of course, I still see him as my trainer and respect him just as much. It's just that I can't learn from him anymore. As for the management side, my teachers didn't teach me how to manage things. They give quite a fair bit of problems, so I have to clean it up for them to make sure the club continues running. Learned from experience.
    Pro pro pro!!!!!!!! Young man got great future!!!!!!

    TS must share more of your photo and experience to inspire hobbyist like me!!!!!!

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