17th December 2004, 01:43 AM
objectif or Photographic Society of Singapore
objectifs: basic photography course,
280SGD 7 sessions, one field trip
Photographic Society of Singapore:
Digital Basic Photography :144SGD(mem)244SGD(non mem)
Conventional Photography (English) :144SGD(mem)244SGD(non mem)
O, which one should I enroll???
I really like the photographers in Objectifs, great photos, but 7 sessions only....as for PSS, I don't know if they're good...
headach... anyone knows, or they are the same... haha... = ) HELP ME PLS!
17th December 2004, 01:47 AM
7 sessions for $280 not dat bad if u like their style of photography.
or u rather go for 70 lession for $28 by someone u dun admire ?
more doesn't equate to better..
17th December 2004, 02:48 AM
True. Totally agreed.
Originally Posted by kex
17th December 2004, 05:39 AM
Join PSS member first then enrol for the course. Get to know more new friends with same passion and who knows you may gain more than you pay for...
17th December 2004, 07:13 AM
17th December 2004, 11:11 AM
Fully agreed... PSS offers an affordable course for beginners as well as more advanced photographers. Furthermore, the instructors and people there are very friendly. It is especially helpful for beginners as they have a photo critique session every friday for members whereby the senior members or instructors will point out your mistakes etc.
Originally Posted by newcreat
As for the thought of learning under some photographers you admire, it may not be good as a good photographer may not be a good teacher and you may not learn much.
I happened to know that one of the instructors (left already i know) was a graduate of PSS basic course like 2 years ago only.... So much for experience...
17th December 2004, 11:28 AM
Well, personally, I say go with Objectifs 'cos the instructors are all commited to teaching their students to see and shoot from the heart. They encourage creativity, rather than just focus on the technical aspect, which of course is important but is not what photography is primarily about.
What is more important to you at this point? The arts or science of picture-making?
Last edited by Kiv; 17th December 2004 at 11:31 AM.
17th December 2004, 11:36 AM
I beg to differ .... creativity cannot be taught, it is to be seen. With good technical background on photogprahy, you will be able to use that knowledge to create picture making is not only a science or an art, it is a mixture of both. If you do not have the basic technical knowledge, you can't create.
Originally Posted by Kiv
17th December 2004, 12:16 PM
If I were to go for a course, I would much rather try objectifs rather than PSS, because I'm quite impressed by the work of the objectifs alumni.
I don't agree that creativity (or rather, creative ways of seeing) cannot be taught. I think it can. I'm not the only one. Take a walk around Popular bookstore. One out of three student guidebooks has the word "Creative" emblazoned on the cover. Quite hilarious, actually. It's the new buzzword.
17th December 2004, 12:18 PM
One can't be taught how to be creative, but one certainly can be inspired. Like I've said, it is important to know the technical basics of how to expose properly etc...but what is probably going to make a difference to the pictures you make is how you put your perspective and thought into it.
Actually, in a way, I think even the art aspect of picture-making itself can at times be rather calculated, in the sense that once you know what works...you just have to apply it at the right time. It becomes instinctive.
17th December 2004, 12:31 PM
hehehehe .... typical Singaporean style .... everything must be taught, everything must be following the same method, everything is government says goes ....... LOL ..... one can be inspired to be creative, but not taught creativity. One can teach you what is creative, but not teach you creativity.
Originally Posted by StreetShooter
You can be ASKED to be creative and learn about creativity but not taught creativity, it is a natural instinct that differ from one to one. Personal view, there is no one way of creative view, if there is one track way, it is not creative anymore ;D .....
I was in a model shoot, then a very much more experienced photographer and mentor just instill a sentence "Wah .... why all standard pose ..... do things you would not do on normal model shoot lah .... ", it just struck me, for the next few shots until the end of the roll, all the poses I had made are not poses I would normally pose a model, but the output is not too bad .... is that creativity? So how to teach something that is not there?
Creativity is about learning the rules and breaking it graciously.
Last edited by blurblock; 17th December 2004 at 12:36 PM.
17th December 2004, 12:54 PM
well... this seems like heading towards another PSS vs Objectivs vs other camera clubs....
I guess the most important thing is to get the foundation right before you talk abt creativity. For illustration, some of the creatity shots you can make is to have intentional blur shots for certain shots so that it's blur but you can still see the main subject but it helps to convey a sense of movement etc.
Imagine a beginner who are TAUGHT to be creative and blindly follow it and ended up all shots all blur, intentionally or not!
I am not saying Objectivs does that. It's just that sometimes their courses may be too abstract for beginners.
To be creative, there are many ways, like blurblock has pointed out. Breaking the rules is creative (intentionally and with good effect only). Developing your own style is creative. If you look around CS, some of the photographers has developed their own styles such as Wolfgang and Kianteck... You can almost distinctly indentify the photog without seeing their names.
Of course, almost no one is really "creative" enough to develop something totally new, some form of imitation or "inspiration" is needed, hence reading up on mags and books and examine the styles of various photogs like Ansel Adams (for those who like B&W landscape), Helmut Newton (Glamour/Fashion) & Henri Cartier Bossum (the decisive moments) (i think i spelt wrongly! Shame on me!) will help you develop your own style and creativity!
Even looking at fashion mags will gives you idea on how to conduct a photoshoot like choosing the location, model, setting and mood etc.
Ultimately, i still believe a strong grounding in Foundation provided by PSS is invaluable. If you don't believe so, you can do a search on most photographers in SG and most of them are current or ex-PSS members. But that's not the point....
The point is, get good technical grounding then explore what type of photos you like to take. It can be Portraiture, Fashion, B&W, Nature or what have you and you can choose to take the more advance courses by PSS or other places.
17th December 2004, 01:51 PM
I'm sorry, but I don't quite get you...
Originally Posted by blurblock
Didn't your mentor just challenged you to be more "creative" in the sense that you decided to be more experimental with your shots and not stick with what you usually do or see? So likewise, this is what I meant when I say the instructors at objectifs focus more on bringing out the creative side of the photographer and basically challenging them to see beyond the usual and the norm. You might then argue that it becomes very fake because they are just trying to be different for the sake of being different, but it's not the case. Sometimes you see much more (beyond what the rest usually do) when you look and think harder, in which case, it's still from your perspective that you see.
17th December 2004, 02:16 PM
Nevermind, forget it. Anyway, it is not a challenge. The concepts are very different.
Originally Posted by Kiv
22nd December 2004, 03:43 PM
i dont know how pss conduct their lessons, but with objectifs i gained more than knowledge or insight, but i gained friends and mentors..people who cares about your progress enough to tutor you outside of class hours...excellent.
some people learn faster with a techincal base and then applying to creative concepts, some people let inspiration and creativity to fuel them to learn more techniques to facilitate their vision making
6th February 2005, 04:31 PM
A journey in photography is a long path.
It is essential that one is well grounded in the fundamentals as that is the beginning phase, before the words like "creativity", "originality" etc comes into the picture. Agree with Blurblock.
And there is no fixed rule that one has to learn from one master. I am a self taught photographer, in a way, under a one to one mentorship with one of the masters, and I also learn from the others.
No matter what, the bottomline is, get the fundamentals right and strong.
PSS Basic Photography course is catered for all people, without the need to submit any portfolio to be enrolled. The course is taught by 5 different instructors of different specialization. Many students have benefitted from being exposed to the various styles, and they choose which to follow.
The instructors are well qualified and recognised locally and regionally, and a few have held several solo exhibitions.
The weekly Friday photo clinic is FREE of charge, where members can bring their works for comment by the seniors and instructors.
Of course, if one has the budget, it is good to have a "tour of duty" and take up several classes in different places. Learn from the different masters. The bottomline is, learn the fundamentals, and then shoot what you want. Find a master whom you think his works are marvelous, and have him or her as your mentor.
The path to excellence is long. There is no short cut. I do not believe in being able to "fly" overnight for a beginner.
6th February 2005, 05:21 PM
Dunno why you all like to argue/compare. Just look through the programme itself and see if you like it. Photography is not about what people think. Photography is about capturing the moment and sharing with people, whether they like or not.
6th February 2005, 05:23 PM
Originally Posted by Steven Yee
Did not know that there is this Friday thingy. Want to join the conventional basic course, but scare may clash with my potential night class. Any idea if non-members are allowed to join the friday photo clinic?
6th February 2005, 08:44 PM
This is again another version of debate about "creativity" versus "techniques".
Why must it be one or the other? They are intertwined and as inseparable as the the two halves of the brain.
In my limited experience, with exceptions, most workshops are pleasant and few participants do not benefit from the workshops. Most teachers are wonderful. What is important also depends on the background of the participants, at what "stage" they joined the workshops. To some, perhaps a photog like Streetshooter, workshops offered by PSS may not appeal because he is "beyond" that stage. He may be looking for ways to "express" himself more,and hence objectifs's courses are more attractive. For others, PSS may just be more appropriate.
It is abundantly clear that if you do not know where the shutter is, you cannot make a photograph. The question is "how much fundamentals is really essential?" On this issue, many will quote photographers who make good images with just a point and shoot camera. There are always exceptions to any "rules". Some people are truly creative. Most of us have to be guided. And a good command of fundamental techniques (whatever that is), is necessary.
"Creativity" implies an uncharted path. If uncharted, how can anyone lead you? The best about naturing "creativity" is to encourage experimentation. But again, to experiment, one must know where to start. And if one do not know what has gone on before, one may be inventing the wheel all over again! So again, this implies a certain fundamental understanding of techniques and even "history" of photography!
So, I think that for most of us, notwithstanding our desires to be "creative" (don't we all love to be "creative"?) few are truly innovative. Much of what is touted as "creative" is imitation. And the accolades that come along are really from those who do not know beter. I think it will do us to to be a little more realistic about ourselves and not indulge in too much delusions about "creativity".
6th February 2005, 09:41 PM
Originally Posted by theITguy
I think non-members are not allowed, but then PSS is having a special offer for their membership. $80 for 2 years, it is a good deal for anyone wanting to have more exposure.