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Thread: Mirrorless or entry level DSLR?

  1. #121

    Default Re: Mirrorless or entry level DSLR?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rc311 View Post

    Frankly, mirrorless cam is very new to me and I am still thinking which model to go with. I am just a causal photographer, most time taking street , family and sometimes some landscape photo.

    Fuji x-Pro1 is closer to DSLR but high price tag and the limitation of the lens. I am thinking to get sometime that is more versatile (in term of cost and len availablity). My budget is not more than 2.5k. M3/4 looks good enough for me. I dont actually mind the 2x crop factor. I am looking at Olympus OM-D EM5 and I am still exploring other. Maybe some recommendation would be good.

    Btw, how does the DOF works on the M3/4 as compare to DSLR since it is having a smaller lens? Correct me if I am wrong...
    I don't think you should worry too much about the depth of field. All the mentioned systems have lenses that produce very nice blurring in shallow DOF shots. There is a lot of demand for sharp photos with nice out-of-focus blurring in the market so you needn't worry.

    You should choose your system based on the lenses you think you may need. For instance, do you prefer an all-in-one zoom lens? Do you want a street shooting pancake prime? Do you want a long range telephoto lens for bird watching? Do you like taking photos of bugs? These are important start points.

    Based on your lens requirements, you can check the existing camera systems for lens availability, quality and cost. Read lens reviews. Choose the system first and then the camera body. The body price of any MILC (or DSLR) is usually much less compared to the prices of lenses over a long period of time.

    Even if a lens system does not have the lens you are looking for it may be possible to use a lens meant for another system with an adapter on the camera body. Many of the MILC camera systems gained popularity because DSLR system owners could continue to use their lenses on the new MILC bodies. For instance Olympus DSLR lenses work on Olympus MILC cameras through an adapter like this one: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002CGSYMQ?...tag=ii3plht-20
    Last edited by Shahmatt; 17th June 2012 at 01:36 AM.
    Samsung NX10+30mm, Fuji S6500FD

  2. #122

    Default Re: Mirrorless or entry level DSLR?

    Quote Originally Posted by rhino123 View Post
    A35 and A57 are SLT and not mirrorless. They have a mirror.

    Yes, they are lighter than most DSLR, but I doubt they are smaller and lighter than entry level DSLR, which was essentially almost or at the same size and weigh.
    Quote Originally Posted by donut88 View Post
    Oh! Yes, my mistake. Confusion.

    Yes, A35, 57 and so on have a mirror.
    correction: Translucent Mirror. or Pellicle Mirror for the older generation of Canon users.

    it doesn't work the same way as a traditional DSLR

  3. #123

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kei1309

    correction: Translucent Mirror. or Pellicle Mirror for the older generation of Canon users.

    it doesn't work the same way as a traditional DSLR
    Yes. Thanks

    I can never get the correct term right. Technology can be confusing.

  4. #124

    Default Re: Mirrorless or entry level DSLR?

    Quote Originally Posted by kei1309 View Post
    correction: Translucent Mirror. or Pellicle Mirror for the older generation of Canon users.

    it doesn't work the same way as a traditional DSLR
    The advantage of the translucent mirror used to be so that you can continue to use phase detect auto-focus. But contrast detect on regular MILC cameras are so fast now I don't think it makes a difference.
    Samsung NX10+30mm, Fuji S6500FD

  5. #125

    Default Re: Mirrorless or entry level DSLR?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shahmatt View Post
    But contrast detect on regular MILC cameras are so fast now I don't think it makes a difference.
    True. but form factor is another consideration when buying a new camera. for me, i have my A850 for serious work. it's more comfortable to grip for longer periods of time. also add in the many other ports and terminals for expandability of the system.

    compared to my NEX-7 which is small and light, definitely easier to hold for longer periods but in terms of the expandability of the system, it's a no for me.

    you're basing the need for mirrorless on the basis of "AF Speed". may i remind you that there's more to the camera than just the AF speed
    Last edited by kei1309; 17th June 2012 at 06:21 PM.

  6. #126

    Default Re: Mirrorless or entry level DSLR?

    a dslr will give you more alternatives and more control over the end product. however there will no or less in camera processing and effects that many amateurs are looking for... hence the type of camera you choose should depend on how much manual you are looking for...

  7. #127

    Default Re: Mirrorless or entry level DSLR?

    Quote Originally Posted by evilorgi View Post
    a dslr will give you more alternatives and more control over the end product. however there will no or less in camera processing and effects that many amateurs are looking for... hence the type of camera you choose should depend on how much manual you are looking for...
    You haven't seen the number of effects on the SLT cameras???

    It's like the best of DSLR with the best of mirrorless in one. LOL
    Alpha

  8. #128

    Default Re: Mirrorless or entry level DSLR?

    Quote Originally Posted by kei1309 View Post
    True. but form factor is another consideration when buying a new camera. for me, i have my A850 for serious work. it's more comfortable to grip for longer periods of time. also add in the many other ports and terminals for expandability of the system.

    compared to my NEX-7 which is small and light, definitely easier to hold for longer periods but in terms of the expandability of the system, it's a no for me.

    you're basing the need for mirrorless on the basis of "AF Speed". may i remind you that there's more to the camera than just the AF speed
    I was comparing SLT cameras with regular mirrorless cameras. The argument for SLT is phase-detect AF and the Alpha mount. But the phase detect AF at least offers no advantage over contrast detect on MILC models.

    What kind of work do you need your A850 for?

    Actually I am not a big fan of the NEX7. As you say it is not very expandable. I would say Samsung's APSC offerings are more versatile - especially the new NX20. But Panasonic and Olympus m43 have more than enough accessories to go now right?
    Samsung NX10+30mm, Fuji S6500FD

  9. #129

    Default Re: Mirrorless or entry level DSLR?

    Quote Originally Posted by evilorgi View Post
    a dslr will give you more alternatives and more control over the end product. however there will no or less in camera processing and effects that many amateurs are looking for... hence the type of camera you choose should depend on how much manual you are looking for...
    Depends on the DSLR. In the entry level range at least now MILC models seem to be equal or better.
    Samsung NX10+30mm, Fuji S6500FD

  10. #130

    Default Re: Mirrorless or entry level DSLR?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shahmatt View Post
    Actually I am not a big fan of the NEX7. As you say it is not very expandable. I would say Samsung's APSC offerings are more versatile - especially the new NX20. But Panasonic and Olympus m43 have more than enough accessories to go now right?
    can i rephrase that?

    you've never been a fan of any mirrorless system other than Samsung.

    for expandability right now, the NEX-7 beats any mirrorless system hands-down, with the use of Minolta Flashes due to the built-in hotshoe, many adaptors to hundreds (if not thousands) of lenses, and not forgetting the Tri-Navi navigation controls.

  11. #131

    Default Re: Mirrorless or entry level DSLR?

    Quote Originally Posted by kei1309 View Post
    can i rephrase that?

    you've never been a fan of any mirrorless system other than Samsung.

    for expandability right now, the NEX-7 beats any mirrorless system hands-down, with the use of Minolta Flashes due to the built-in hotshoe, many adaptors to hundreds (if not thousands) of lenses, and not forgetting the Tri-Navi navigation controls.
    True. I was just reading up on the camera and you are right. My mistake.

    I support Samsung because they are the only alternative APS-C mirrorless option. They offer good value with very nice lenses. Also they are bit of an underdog and have to fight to get some brand recognition. Photographers are notoriously brand loyal! So my best to them on this uphill task.
    Samsung NX10+30mm, Fuji S6500FD

  12. #132

    Default Re: Mirrorless or entry level DSLR?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shahmatt View Post
    I was comparing SLT cameras with regular mirrorless cameras. The argument for SLT is phase-detect AF and the Alpha mount. But the phase detect AF at least offers no advantage over contrast detect on MILC models.
    Actually not true. PDAF still has significant advantages in tracking focus, and I've not yet encountered a mirrorless camera that could lock focus with the same speed and reliability as my PDAF system.
    Alpha

  13. #133

    Default Re: Mirrorless or entry level DSLR?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shahmatt View Post
    True. I was just reading up on the camera and you are right. My mistake.

    I support Samsung because they are the only alternative APS-C mirrorless option. They offer good value with very nice lenses. Also they are bit of an underdog and have to fight to get some brand recognition. Photographers are notoriously brand loyal! So my best to them on this uphill task.
    nice lenses like schneider-kreuznach but the sensor has a long way to go before it can beat the likes of the Sony(Nikon, Pentax and Sony) and Canon sensors. plus it looks like Samsung doesn't have a direction for their NX Mirrorless. obvious copies of other brands' cameras and also, each series has many different designs.. it just feels like they're not focused at all.

  14. #134

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Shahmatt

    True. I was just reading up on the camera and you are right. My mistake.

    I support Samsung because they are the only alternative APS-C mirrorless option. They offer good value with very nice lenses. Also they are bit of an underdog and have to fight to get some brand recognition. Photographers are notoriously brand loyal! So my best to them on this uphill task.
    I think u need to read up more. Yr understanding is limited.

    Nex cam is the best mirrorless cam you can find, I dare say. Read on what type of sensor Nex offers and pls dont think Nex only can use 6 lenses. I suggest u talk to Nex users. They can proudly show you the range of lenses they r using.

    For pic quality, see the Sony folder for the gallery. It gives the cleanest pic under extreme low light, PROVIDED the user knows how to use it.

  15. #135

    Default

    Haha, the above comment looks inflammatory..

    I'm a Sony NEX user, n v proud of it. However, I would hesitate to say that it is the best, cuz it ultimately depends on what the user wants to do w it.

    Shoot running kids? The CDAF will not be able to track n focus fast enuf. Think the m43 ones have been touted to be faster, though this is arguable. Will need to buy the LAE2 adapter n Sony lens to achieve PDAF speeds, which pple may not want for the resulting package size.

    Shoot in poor weather? Then the weather-sealed OMD is what you are looking for. Or an umbrella to go w ur NEX if you are a risk taker.

    And although I love my manual focus Zeisses n vintage SLR lenses built to last, I recognize that not everyone likes to manual focus. It's fun, but I guess it's just not for everyone. Like when I pass my NEX to another w my contax g on, more likely than not the typical layman will be clueless as to how to focus.

    Some people will prefer native AF lenses to go w their mirrorless, n we have to admit that for now, M43 have a bigger range (though it is arguable that what Nex have to offer now will be sufficient for most users)

    At the end if the day, the user must decide what he or she is using it for, and recognize there are trade offs w every decision. I recognize the above and still stick to my NEX, for many reasons. One is price - yes the body is not cheap, but w focus peaking n touchscreen magnification, It is undoubtably the best system (yes better than m43s n Samsung) to adapt manual lens, and this is a huge $ saver, considering the price of legacy lens on EBay n yes, the clubsnap classifieds. Low light performance ? Clean images at ISO1600.

    Ultimately,it delivers pics I want within the constraints I m willing to live in, which may not be the same constraints other face. And yes, I have recommended people to get EPL3 before.

  16. #136
    Moderator daredevil123's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mirrorless or entry level DSLR?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shahmatt View Post
    True. I was just reading up on the camera and you are right. My mistake.

    I support Samsung because they are the only alternative APS-C mirrorless option. They offer good value with very nice lenses. Also they are bit of an underdog and have to fight to get some brand recognition. Photographers are notoriously brand loyal! So my best to them on this uphill task.
    Welcome back to CS. We miss you here for a while now. Where have you been?

  17. #137

    Default Re: Mirrorless or entry level DSLR?

    Quote Originally Posted by kei1309 View Post
    nice lenses like schneider-kreuznach but the sensor has a long way to go before it can beat the likes of the Sony(Nikon, Pentax and Sony) and Canon sensors. plus it looks like Samsung doesn't have a direction for their NX Mirrorless. obvious copies of other brands' cameras and also, each series has many different designs.. it just feels like they're not focused at all.
    In terms of noise, on a relative scale, it can maybe be argued that the Samsung sensor is inferior to the likes of Sony et al. But I think to the average user this does not make a huge difference. Sensor technology has come a long way in the last few years. I regularly shoot ISO800 to 1600 on my NX10 in jpeg mode for family events etc. and I don't think there's a problem. For important photos I go RAW and eek out the extra detail.

    I think the NX series is important because of the APS-C sensor, meaning you get that extra bit of dynamic range. For some reason I've always been a fan of getting as much DR as possible. Anything for less blown out highlights, if you know what I mean.

    Not sure what you mean by Samsung being a copy of other brand cameras. AFAIK, the NX series is the only other APS-C mirrorless cam manufacturer. The lenses are made in-house and the pancakes are astonishingly small for an APS-C based mount. To me there seems to be more originality and less copying.
    Last edited by Shahmatt; 18th June 2012 at 10:58 AM.
    Samsung NX10+30mm, Fuji S6500FD

  18. #138
    Moderator daredevil123's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mirrorless or entry level DSLR?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shahmatt View Post
    In terms of noise, on a relative scale, it can maybe be argued that the Samsung sensor is inferior to the likes of Sony et al. But I think to the average user this does not make a huge difference. Sensor technology has come a long way in the last few years. I regularly shoot ISO800 to 1600 on my NX10 in jpeg mode for family events etc. and I don't think there's a problem. For important photos I go RAW and eek out the extra detail.

    I think the NX series is important because of the APS-C sensor, meaning you get that extra bit of dynamic range. For some reason I've always been a fan of getting as much DR as possible. Anything for less blown out highlights, if you know what I mean.

    Not sure what you mean by Samsung being a copy of other brand cameras. AFAIK, the NX series is the only other APS-C mirrorless cam manufacturer. The lenses are made in-house and the pancakes are astonishingly small for an APS-C based mount. To me there seems to be more originality and less copying.
    I thought all Sony Nex are also APS-C.. and their sensors are way superior, for around the same amount of money to the NX system...

    Plus NEX has focus peaking, which makes it a lot more favorable when used with legacy lenses. NX also does not allow shifting of focus point/area when in MF mode, makes it really annoying when using legacy lenses. NEX is definitely much more flexible overall.
    Last edited by daredevil123; 18th June 2012 at 11:03 AM.

  19. #139

    Default Re: Mirrorless or entry level DSLR?

    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil123 View Post
    Welcome back to CS. We miss you here for a while now. Where have you been?
    Oh not far away. I've been delving into mobile phone ROM customization on my beloved Orange San Francisco phone.

    Quite fun and very absorbing!
    Samsung NX10+30mm, Fuji S6500FD

  20. #140
    Moderator rhino123's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mirrorless or entry level DSLR?

    There are no such thing as the best mirrorless camera or best DSLR or best whatever. Sure the NEX had a bigger sensor as compared to the m4/3, but if we are only looking at sensor size, then M9 had the biggest sensor. And there is no such thing as the best sensor too... DXOmark might had some in the lab reading, but I don't think a camera is just dependent only on the sensor... many things came in to get the camera system working... things like the mirror (or without mirror), processor/s, AF system, etc etc.

    And yes, the NEX had a great number of lenses after the additional of an adapter and you can use minolta lenses and A-mount lenses, so can the m4/3 (which after adding of an adapter, you can use the great Zuiko lenses too).

    So it all boils down to individual preferences.
    I am not a photographer, just someone who happened to have a couple of cameras.
    My lousy shots

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