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Thread: Mirrorless or entry level DSLR?

  1. #21

    Default Re: Mirrorless or entry level DSLR?

    Quote Originally Posted by wksoh View Post
    I'm a newbie - and I require "face-detect"
    Why? Newbies have been fine for over 100 years without face detect...

    Quote Originally Posted by wksoh View Post
    Go for M4/3
    = because the Panasonic 20mm is the lens that makes it tick (It enables the rare "Bokeh" effect in a compact!)
    = The 20mm is sharper than a Canon L lens (24mm - 70mm) that I recently shot with. However, bokeh wise, it is no match for L lens.

    Go for K-01 = Have not tried, apparently has Face detect , pancake with bokeh. Great ISO performance

    I have a Canon 550D with 50mm lens = default mode no face detect, high % out of off focus photos even at f2.8. But my wifes loves the bokeh, so when in focus, is very nice.

    Samsung NX200 = Have not tried, apparently has Face detect , pancake with bokeh. Good ISO performance.
    Please understand what Bokeh actually means. There is NO "bokeh effect" and background blur does not mean bokeh.

    Quote Originally Posted by wksoh View Post
    Sony = Great camera and functions, I'm looking forward to it's prime lens to have bokeh (maybe coming out soon?).
    You mean the 50mm f/1.8? Out already. And you can use the A-mount lenses too.
    Alpha

  2. #22
    Member lotus80's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rashkae

    "Entry level" and D7000 don't go hand in hand...
    Entry level is waste of money, sooner or later one will upgrade. That's what I did !! Sold my canon 600d within months of purchase.
    So I suggested to try mid range. Just my thoughts

  3. #23
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    Default Re: Mirrorless or entry level DSLR?

    Quote Originally Posted by lotus80 View Post
    Entry level is waste of money, sooner or later one will upgrade. That's what I did !! Sold my canon 600d within months of purchase.
    So I suggested to try mid range. Just my thoughts
    Hmm, entry level / mid range/ FF is a waste of $ if you don't know how to use it, not saying that you don't btw. I upgraded after >2 years with my 1st entry level dslr and still dunno how to shoot well when I upgraded to mid range DSLR. Somehow, after I switch to mirrorless, my perspective and approach changed for the better (I hope). Understanding gear and composition is perhaps more important than upgrading. Easier said than done

    Pinholecam, Rhino123 had summarized very well the thoughts, I do feel the latest mirrorless cams are giving entry level DSLR a run for the $.

    TS: You might want to check out this "old" thread by Adrewine, who uses Olympus DSLR (E620) initially and switched to mirrorless Pen E-PL1 (from page 7), all shot by kit lenses. E-PL1 is considered a light & cheap version which can be bought cheaper than some P&S. I also have an ongoing thread in my signature which is all shot with Olympus Pen and more recently OMD EM5, a pale comparison to Adrewine's. Hope that helps

  4. #24

    Default Re: Mirrorless or entry level DSLR?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rashkae View Post
    Why? Newbies have been fine for over 100 years without face detect...



    Please understand what Bokeh actually means. There is NO "bokeh effect" and background blur does not mean bokeh.



    You mean the 50mm f/1.8? Out already. And you can use the A-mount lenses too.
    Actually in Japanese, Boke-aji means "blur". The Westerners confused everyone by saying Bokeh is the "quality of the blur" and not the blur itself.

  5. #25

    Default Re: Mirrorless or entry level DSLR?

    Quote Originally Posted by lotus80 View Post
    Entry level is waste of money, sooner or later one will upgrade. That's what I did !! Sold my canon 600d within months of purchase.
    So I suggested to try mid range. Just my thoughts
    ISO, Shutter, Aperture are all there is to the basics of a camera and the power to control them to make good photos is on any DSLR/MILC.
    Paying more for higher end models buys more features and creature comforts.
    Some ppl will need those additional stuff, many don't.

  6. #26

    Default Re: Mirrorless or entry level DSLR?

    Quote Originally Posted by wksoh View Post
    Actually in Japanese, Boke-aji means "blur". The Westerners confused everyone by saying Bokeh is the "quality of the blur" and not the blur itself.
    Bokeh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Extract from wikipedia:

    "The term comes from the Japanese word boke (暈け or ボケ), which means "blur" or "haze", or boke-aji (ボケ味), the "blur quality". "

  7. #27

    Default Re: Mirrorless or entry level DSLR?

    Quote Originally Posted by wksoh View Post
    Actually in Japanese, Boke-aji means "blur". The Westerners confused everyone by saying Bokeh is the "quality of the blur" and not the blur itself.
    No, not quite. It's the Sim Lim salesmen that have people thinking Bokeh is just blur. The Japanese understand that boke-aji means the quality of blur, or, in the usual Japanese artistic sense, how the blur enhances the picture by being pleasing.

    My source? Endless discussions with Japanese photographers.
    Alpha

  8. #28

    Default Re: Mirrorless or entry level DSLR?

    Quote Originally Posted by snowc View Post
    Bokeh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Extract from wikipedia:

    "The term comes from the Japanese word boke (暈け or ボケ), which means "blur" or "haze", or boke-aji (ボケ味), the "blur quality". "
    So Boke means the "Blur?" I'd agree with that
    Last edited by wksoh; 1st June 2012 at 10:47 PM.

  9. #29

    Default Re: Mirrorless or entry level DSLR?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rashkae View Post
    Why? Newbies have been fine for over 100 years without face detect...



    Please understand what Bokeh actually means. There is NO "bokeh effect" and background blur does not mean bokeh.



    You mean the 50mm f/1.8? Out already. And you can use the A-mount lenses too.
    Thanks for letting me know the 50mm 1.8 E mount is out. I will be looking closely at the Nex as a portrait camera and sell off my DSLR. Because I want face detect..

  10. #30
    Member lotus80's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wksoh

    Thanks for letting me know the 50mm 1.8 E mount is out. I will be looking closely at the Nex as a portrait camera and sell off my DSLR. Because I want face detect..
    What's the crop sensor multiplier for 4/3 or mirror less cameras ?

    My Nikon d7000 is 1.5, so 50mm behaves like a 75mm

  11. #31

    Default Re: Mirrorless or entry level DSLR?

    Quote Originally Posted by lotus80 View Post
    What's the crop sensor multiplier for 4/3 or mirror less cameras ?

    My Nikon d7000 is 1.5, so 50mm behaves like a 75mm
    the Crop factor of Micro 4/3 cameras is 2x.

    for NEX and NX, it's 1.5x because they use APS-C sensors like the one in your D7000, just that Nikon calls it DX. Pentax, Sony and Nikon all use this sensor.

    Canon's is 1.6x for its lower to mid level bodies.

    Nikon's ONE series has a crop factor of 2.7x

    Pentax Q has a crop factor of 5.62x

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by kei1309

    the Crop factor of Micro 4/3 cameras is 2x.

    for NEX and NX, it's 1.5x because they use APS-C sensors like the one in your D7000, just that Nikon calls it DX. Pentax, Sony and Nikon all use this sensor.

    Canon's is 1.6x for its lower to mid level bodies.

    Nikon's ONE series has a crop factor of 2.7x

    Pentax Q has a crop factor of 5.62x
    Thanks and wow !!

    Dx format much better than 4/3 etc.

    50mm on 4/3 = 100mm, then why buy these toys ?

  13. #33
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    Default Re: Mirrorless or entry level DSLR?

    Quote Originally Posted by lotus80 View Post
    Thanks and wow !!

    Dx format much better than 4/3 etc.

    50mm on 4/3 = 100mm, then why buy these toys ?
    What are you talking about? Why would Dx format be much better than 4/3? In what way? Just because Dx had bigger sensor doesn't mean it is necessary better than 4/3.

    And 4/3 or micro4/3 although had smaller sensor, the entire package is smaller, smaller body, smaller lenses, etc. Newer m4/3 sensor had very good noise control too.

    Not pouring water onto APS-C sensor yet, but to make a sweeping statement that APS-C = better than 4/3 sensor... is well... not true.
    I am not a photographer, just someone who happened to have a couple of cameras.
    My lousy shots

  14. #34

    Default Re: Mirrorless or entry level DSLR?

    there's a different camera for different users/uses

  15. #35
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    Default Re: Mirrorless or entry level DSLR?

    Quote Originally Posted by lotus80 View Post
    Thanks and wow !!

    Dx format much better than 4/3 etc.

    50mm on 4/3 = 100mm, then why buy these toys ?
    there's m43 lenses which are 25mm FL which becomes 50mm FOV on 135. And of course if you mount a 500mm SLR reflex lens on it, it becomes 1000mm, great for birding. Its about understanding pros & cons of each format, there's always compromises, thus no perfect system. Some with iphones can shoot better than many with dslr...image "quality" is not just about crop factor. Otherwise Medium and Large format users would be laughing at APSC as toys.
    Last edited by wonglp; 2nd June 2012 at 05:34 PM.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhino123

    What are you talking about? Why would Dx format be much better than 4/3? In what way? Just because Dx had bigger sensor doesn't mean it is necessary better than 4/3.

    And 4/3 or micro4/3 although had smaller sensor, the entire package is smaller, smaller body, smaller lenses, etc. Newer m4/3 sensor had very good noise control too.

    Not pouring water onto APS-C sensor yet, but to make a sweeping statement that APS-C = better than 4/3 sensor... is well... not true.
    I don't know mate, just saying.. Relax and enjoy which ever format we have.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by wonglp

    there's m43 lenses which are 25mm FL which becomes 50mm FOV on 135. And of course if you mount a 500mm SLR reflex lens on it, it becomes 1000mm, great for birding. Its about understanding pros & cons of each format, there's always compromises, thus no perfect system. Some with iphones can shoot better than many with dslr...image "quality" is not just about crop factor. Otherwise Medium and Large format users would be laughing at APSC as toys.
    That is interesting and informative, thanks !

  18. #38

    Default Re: Mirrorless or entry level DSLR?

    Hey elvire, I just got my Sony NEX-C3 last November and it's going really great for me. I was facing the exact same situation as you are now, the thing about having been using a P&S and wanting to upgrade, been doing hobby-photography, and not being able to "tahan" the heavy DSLRs. I went with Sony NEX amongst all the other mirrorless/micro four-thirds/DSLRs because

    a) size and weight (I'm also small-built, and I think my fellow petite-sized friends who carry DSLRs around actually look silly)(And I have a thing for appearing proportionate)
    b) When trying out all the different cameras in stores, the Sony NEX's interface really got me wanting it
    c) Comes in pink! (Though this wouldn't be a consideration for you since you'd rather have that "pro" look, right?)
    d) My top-2 choices were Olympus PEN and Sony NEX, and NEX is cheaper (Then again, I wasn't the one paying for my camera)
    e) I have no qualms about mirrorless because when I was using my P&S intensively for 2 years, I'd rarely looked through the viewfinder
    f) At my moment of purchase, NEX only had NEX-3, NEX-5, NEX-C3 and NEX-5N. C3 and 5N were really slightly improved versions of their older siblings 3 and 5, but I chose C3 over 5N because I thought the main differences (max video quality, touch screen capability, remote shutter capability) was dismissable (except for shutter speed >.<), so I decided to make do with the cheaper one (Also, 5N was a little heavier)

    Half a year on and I'm still quite satisfied with my decision. (Other than when a friend got herself a Panasonic and I was jealous of the in-built digital on-screen level gauge.) You really need a lot of research to know what kind of camera will suit you best (functions-wise), and then your budget, and then the aesthetics. In that order. If you're still having many choices floating in your head, go to websites like Camera Comparison - Snapsort to compare pros and cons, before deducing the top 2 or 3 and going down to the stores to try them out

  19. #39

    Default Re: Mirrorless or entry level DSLR?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rashkae View Post
    "Entry level" and D7000 don't go hand in hand...
    sorry, meaning?

  20. #40

    Default Re: Mirrorless or entry level DSLR?

    Quote Originally Posted by rhino123 View Post
    Why to u care what your friends said? Plus why do you care if a camera is not professional looking enough for commercial work? If your friends said that then (pardon me saying this) your friend know ****. Even if they are professionals, I would definitely doubt their capability in this field, and if they are not professional, I would not take their words seriously.

    You should read this article and show it to your friends.

    How to overcome fears using Micro 4/3rds cameras in a professional environment | Giulio Sciorio Blog

    Finally do not let the so-call professional looking thingy get to you. As long as you can produce the image that your client like, they don't care what camera you use.

    well, as much as i dunwan to take e words , tis fren of mine will just out of the blue msg me to get a dslr and sae hw gd the camera is/are. due to e big age diff, out of respect i dunwan to argue even i had explained my stand n showed the same article as u pasted here. Although I feel tt it is e gd intention of tis fren just tt e way of trying to 'psycho' me to get dslr make me feel like i m making a wrong decision to get a mirrorless. on e other hand, tis fren also will tell me dun bring camera oversea as will feel tt i will get rob =.= [sry just whinning about.. just somehow feel v weird when getting these kind of comments, like pysho me to get a dslr yet suggest nt to bring it out.. -.- ]


    Quote Originally Posted by Wizongod View Post

    I believe you should think over this decision carefully. Do you have absolutely no intention of upgrading in the future? Say, to get more serious in this hobby, to do more freelancing, or to even go professional? If you don't, then it will be alright. But if you do, then you should consider going mainstream with Nikon or Canon, not even Sony. The reason is because of the accessories. With Canon and Nikon, flashes and lenses, especially 3rd party (considering you're tight on budget) are much easier to find. You'll find your upgrade route much smoother, and you'll find it very easy to get what you need to get (especially 2nd hand in the B&S section). That's a very important plus point for going mainstream.


    Personally, I like looking professional even though I'm not, it's just an ego thing. I'd carry my 70-200 F4 L IS and always add on the lens hood to make it look longer, and also attach my battery grip to make my camera look bigger. But that's just for fun. As always, it's the photographer that counts.
    Actually i will stick to my cam till it fail me , like previously i had my canon powershot a520 bought like..7yrs yrs ago? even my college lecturer commented it v old.( -.-) but despite it onli hav like 4.0mp w little functions it built up my confidence during poly, as e image gt selected to showcase in sch but as i moved on to college , due to the assignments themes etc which r hard to achieve w a520 i upgraded to powershot sx20 is.


    den sx20 gt hot shoe ma.. so i just put the flash [borrow fr e lecturer] n use it for studio shots..so it basically sum up my equipment range =x [ reflector, lightbox etc all borrow =x] Even thou sx20 is P&S, i encountered some budget freelance projects which e clients doesnt mind at all [ i would sae i m quite lucky for tt?] It hit me to upgrade again due to some assignment needed to print a0 size of images. n sx20 also cause me to look thr viewfinder n..gt v used to it nw =p

    for the past 7 yrs, didn bother with lenses but after finding/reading abt them tt y wanted to upgrade again [sold sx20 for almost a yr, so nw v itchy to get a cam n take pics - which is oso a concern on myself tt i will get into a hasty decision so need non-bias stand of feedbacks to clear me ]


    Based on my research olympus n panasonic hav wide m4/3 lens range [which i think shld b able to last me for quite long? thou i m nt v sure abt e pricing]


    I myself dun look professional at all.. most pple tot i m sec sch kid -.-'' i m more concern of image quality than my own appearance

    as mentioned by aiest (a) a male photographer fren of mine also mentioned abt looking proportionate tt when it hit me to think about it [ but e comfort level of carrying e cam ard is more of a concern coz i will also use it for travelling purpose.. like go climb up n down a hill in china or sth to take scenery pics]


    Quote Originally Posted by aiest View Post

    a) size and weight (I'm also small-built, and I think my fellow petite-sized friends who carry DSLRs around actually look silly)(And I have a thing for appearing proportionate)
    b) When trying out all the different cameras in stores, the Sony NEX's interface really got me wanting it
    c) Comes in pink! (Though this wouldn't be a consideration for you since you'd rather have that "pro" look, right?)
    d) My top-2 choices were Olympus PEN and Sony NEX, and NEX is cheaper (Then again, I wasn't the one paying for my camera)
    e) I have no qualms about mirrorless because when I was using my P&S intensively for 2 years, I'd rarely looked through the viewfinder
    f) At my moment of purchase, NEX only had NEX-3, NEX-5, NEX-C3 and NEX-5N. C3 and 5N were really slightly improved versions of their older siblings 3 and 5, but I chose C3 over 5N because I thought the main differences (max video quality, touch screen capability, remote shutter capability) was dismissable (except for shutter speed >.<), so I decided to make do with the cheaper one (Also, 5N was a little heavier)

    haha aiest, i m actually nt a pink person so doesn really mind the color of the cam look pro or nt =p, me too have no qualms abt mirrorless [in fact i m waitin for the technology to reach tis kind of level]


    sry for the long old ah ma post =x

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