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Thread: Families Against Casino Threat (facts.com.sg)

  1. #1
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    Default Families Against Casino Threat (facts.com.sg)

    If you feel strongly against the casino being set up in Singapore, as I do, take a look here --> http://www.facts.com.sg/default.asp

    Cheers,

  2. #2

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    i'm trying to understand why we shouldn't have a casino in singapore. i think the website will be better if they can list down the reasons.

    btw, i dun gamble with money. even when my friends want me to play mahjong, i insist on just playing it as a game. however, i am not against the idea of having a casino. but pigs will learn how to fly before i gamble in that casino.

  3. #3

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    I have seen the website, but I am not signing it.

    I realise that gambling is an addiction, but that doesn't mean that everyone who gambles is an addict. I personally like the feeling of playing small stakes at casinos, and I feel that its like watching a movie, or other activity that takes your mind off somewhere.

    No doubt that there are addicts who are ruining their lives and their families, but I guess that there are abusers of almost every activity, including photography, where people are really taking out loans to finance this not-so-cheap hobby....

    Most things can be enjoyed with moderation, so if a casino is disallowed based on moral grounds started by a group of people who may not represent the majority of the nation, I will think that this situation is going a bit too far.

    just my 2 cents worth....

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    Quote Originally Posted by frcfyp
    i'm trying to understand why we shouldn't have a casino in singapore. i think the website will be better if they can list down the reasons.

    btw, i dun gamble with money. even when my friends want me to play mahjong, i insist on just playing it as a game. however, i am not against the idea of having a casino. but pigs will learn how to fly before i gamble in that casino.
    I'm not part of that group so I won't speculate on their reasons for not listing the pros and cons. They did state that the issue can be debated to death and still not reach a satisfactory conclusion, so maybe they decided to duck the debate altogether. The primary thrust appears to be that the presence of a casino on economic grounds equals tacit governmental approval, which then makes the raising of children in this fine country that bit more complicated. Nevertheless, it a place for like-minded folk to voice their opinion and sign a petition which *may* have some impact.

    Cheers,

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stefen
    I have seen the website, but I am not signing it.

    I realise that gambling is an addiction, but that doesn't mean that everyone who gambles is an addict. I personally like the feeling of playing small stakes at casinos, and I feel that its like watching a movie, or other activity that takes your mind off somewhere.

    No doubt that there are addicts who are ruining their lives and their families, but I guess that there are abusers of almost every activity, including photography, where people are really taking out loans to finance this not-so-cheap hobby....

    Most things can be enjoyed with moderation, so if a casino is disallowed based on moral grounds started by a group of people who may not represent the majority of the nation, I will think that this situation is going a bit too far.

    just my 2 cents worth....
    Stefen,
    that's fine, and I am certainly not soliciting signatures on behalf of that group. We are entitled our opinions and I respect your POV.

    However, do let me counter. There is no doubt that the "vast" majority will be able to live side by side with a casino and not ruin our lives. However, this is not about the "vast" majority but about the vulnerable minority. There will be, as you have mentioned, a small number of people who will succumb, does that mean that we should sacrifice them on the altar of "economic development".

    Another vulnerable group are the children. You and I have had the opportunity to grow up in a fairly sanitised environment, where by and large our parents did not have to protect us against the evils of porn/drugs/gambling, until we were mature and could decide for ourselves. With the advent of the internet, parenting just got a whole lot more complicated. We don't need the casino to add to our worries.

    The last thing is, as strenuously as the government has tried to steer this away from being a "moral" argument to one of "personal responsibility", one cannot escape the reality that the fall-out from gambling addiction is destroyed lives and families. I have heard of married women in Genting prostituting themselves after losing their money. If that's not about morality then what is?

    Best Regards,

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by dkw
    ... Nevertheless, it a place for like-minded folk to voice their opinion and sign a petition which *may* have some impact.

    Cheers,
    i believe their action won't be futile. everyone will be reminded of the negative side of having a casino. however, i really think they need to quote their reasons more strongly. have you seen their letter to the president?

    anyway, i'm not going to debate on the pros and cons either. people can judge for themselves before they decide to sign or not to sign. everyone has his own opinion and i won't try to influence them otherwise.

    as for me, i won't sign, hahahaha.

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    Quote Originally Posted by frcfyp
    i believe their action won't be futile. everyone will be reminded of the negative side of having a casino. however, i really think they need to quote their reasons more strongly. have you seen their letter to the president?

    anyway, i'm not going to debate on the pros and cons either. people can judge for themselves before they decide to sign or not to sign. everyone has his own opinion and i won't try to influence them otherwise.

    as for me, i won't sign, hahahaha.
    Hi there,
    that's ok. As I said I am not soliciting any signatures for anybody, just bringing this to the attention of folk in this forum who may feel strongly about the issue.

    Cheers,

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    Thanks dkw. I was looking for the website myself.

  9. #9

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    This is the jist of the petetion letter which individuals are signing to be sent to the President.

    I do not want families to be raised in an environment that approves and endorses gambling. Gambling for whatever reason, is not a value to be embraced.
    In this case we should do away with 4D, Toto, Big Sweep, Score and Strike as well right? Be realistic.

    There is so much of Singapore money being loss at Genting, Batam as well as in Las Vegas casinos. Why let our money go into these economies and not our own? Control measures can and might be drawn up to determine who can or cannot gamble at the Singapore casino.

    I'll go out on a limb here and say that once the government and parliment decide to go ahead with the casino idea, which they will, there's nothing FACTS or any other factions opposing the building of a casino will be able to do about it. Bringing the matter up to the President will also not be of much use.

    It's not as if the people get to vote on the idea of this casino being built, it's all up to the government and what they determine to be permissable in our society.

  10. #10

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    If you ask me, I do feel that besides casinos, "pawn" should be legalised, and distributed within singapore.

    my reasons? choice.

    you have a right to know what is right and wrong, and there's no one in this world that has not made a mistake. learning from mistakes is far more effective than learning from others.

    social evils such as smoking, toto (singaporeans gambled 400 million last year, am i right?) should be banned if the reasoning of banning the casinos is like this.

    with the advancement of internet, its really hard to stop anything from getting into the hands of our younger generation nowadays. better to educate them on whats right and whats wrong.

    i hope this is not too political.....

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr_jason

    In this case we should do away with 4D, Toto, Big Sweep, Score and Strike as well right? Be realistic.

    There is so much of Singapore money being loss at Genting, Batam as well as in Las Vegas casinos. Why let our money go into these economies and not our own? Control measures can and might be drawn up to determine who can or cannot gamble at the Singapore casino.
    Agreed.
    Why let our money go to other countries? Let them stay in Sinagpore.

  12. #12
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    Erm...people should have the freedom of choice....banning casino means gamble got no choice but to go to Batam more frequent...on their way pick up a mistress....worse right?

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    Hi Guys,
    appreciate all your comments, really I do . It just shows that there is a deep division of opinion on this issue and it is probably difficult to change anybody's postion once they've made their minds up. So, I'm not even going to try and change anybody's opinion here but I will make a point to point response to some of your comments.

    1) "Freedom of Choice":
    Really, what does this mean? Do you mean total freedom? Freedom to rape, kill and maim? I assume not, therefore, even the most ardent proponents of "freedom" (except possibly the anarchists) will draw a line somewhere between what is acceptable and what is not. The only difference between those of you who propose "freedom of choice" and myself is where you draw that line. I too advocate "freedom of choice", and I "choose" NOT to have a casino.

    2) Toto and other forms of gambling:
    Lets put it this way, I am not averse to putting down a few bucks at the neighbourhood Toto vendor when the pot gets big, or mixing it up with my pals over the mahjong table during CNY. That is a far cry from plonking down a huge glitzy Vegas style facility in the middle of the city, whose sole purpose in life is to lure customers to its gaming tables and generate hundreds of millions in revenue off them. Studies have shown that the environment within the casino encourages the gambling habit (obviously so, otherwise why do the casinos bother). As has been mentioned, the majority will keep their sanity, but a small vulnerable minority, who hitherto have been untouched, will succumb and ruin their lives.

    Singapore is a geographically small place. Unlike the US or UK, if you didn't like the preseence of a casino nearby, you could always move your family to another state or county. Building a casino in Singapore will literally be in your own backyard, how on earth do you insulate your family from that?

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    I think the point is to educate the people, especially the young ones, what the consequences are of being a gambling addict. Let them see what the results are, this is the only way (in my view) to let them think twice themselves. No point telling and voting that we are against it.......the majority of people willl think twice spending all their money, BUT if you are in such a situation that you are desperate for money, you will probably try it too.....the point is not to stop the coming of casino's (people wil go elsewhere anyway, as is already the case), but I think how to educate the people, as they are responsible for their own actions, more importantly: how to educate people that they won't come to a point that they are desperate for money (from borrowing money or otherwise)......by living moderately......

    What bothers me is that the motivation for government to setting this up: to make money......they become a 'dealer' themselves! They do make the appearence of gambling opportunity easier, which is the point of the debate.

    This is why I still don't understand why cigarettes are allowed in SG, yet they don't allow heroine......not that I want people to use heroine, but cigarettes has a very high mortality rate, higher than due to heroine overdose (this could be due to the lower number of people using heroine here or elsewhere, in Holland about 15 years ago: 40.000 people died of alcohol abuse while 10 died of heroine overdose), yet it is still allowed! Someone said it is allowed because the majority likes to drink/smoke, does it mean that as long the majority uses heroine it is suddenly allowed? But that's another thread.....

    I like this discussion! :-)
    Hong Kong Sien.....a photography addict...
    Last edited by hongsien; 15th December 2004 at 03:28 PM.

  15. #15

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    I know that I am OT, but on the topic of "unsavory" habits, I think smoking and drinking cause more trouble, physical, social, medical, etc etc etc.

    If the group really want to have a sanitised environment to bring up their children, then I think such things are probably more damaging than a casino.

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by hongsien
    This is why I still don't understand why cigarettes are allowed in SG, yet they don't allow heroine......not that I want people to use heroine, but cigarettes has a very high mortality rate, higher than due to heroine overdose (this could be due to the lower number of people using heroine here or elsewhere, in Holland about 15 years ago: 40.000 people died of alcohol abuse while 10 died of heroine overdose), yet it is still allowed! Someone said it is allowed because the majority likes to drink/smoke, does it mean that as long the majority uses heroine it is suddenly allowed? But that's another thread.....

    I like this discussion! :-)
    Hong Kong Sien.....a photography addict...
    Read this blog (especially the memoirs) and tell me whether you still want to legalise heroin:

    http://heroinegirl.blogspot.com/

    By the time a gambling addict realises he is a gambling addict, the damage would have been done already.

    By the time we realise a casino is a bad idea, it may be too late.

    Prevention is usually better than cure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by student
    I know that I am OT, but on the topic of "unsavory" habits, I think smoking and drinking cause more trouble, physical, social, medical, etc etc etc.

    If the group really want to have a sanitised environment to bring up their children, then I think such things are probably more damaging than a casino.
    That's next on my list . Hah hah, just kidding. Yes OT, but interesting analogy nonetheless.

  18. #18
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    Default this post is a better example of my site


  19. #19

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    Gambling should be a choice that one makes.

    Casinos are just like shopping centres. No one forces you to enter the shopping centres but there are just so many things to buy there. It tempts you.

    There are 4D/Toto shops at every corner (literally) of Singapore. The queues show you the popularity of gambling in Singapore. What you see is only the legal gambling where the profit goes to the "government", there is a underground gambling which will be much bigger than it is IF there wasn't legal gambling in Singapore.

    As for having a casino at the backyard, it is still not exactly just a walk away from your house, it's still in some corner where u need some effort to get there so it's not like it is tempting you everyday to enter like Las Vegas.

    I feel that the casino operate in Singapore because too much money is going out via Genting/Star Cruises etc. when the money can be used to keep people employed in Singapore.

  20. #20

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    These families should be spending more time with their own members than lobbying online to impose their minority view on the majority.

    Quote Originally Posted by dkw
    If you feel strongly against the casino being set up in Singapore, as I do, take a look here --> http://www.facts.com.sg/default.asp

    Cheers,

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