Dye Inks vs Pigment Inks?

[ady]

I'm looking at getting a printer to print photos and cards, etc. But I've just realised that some printers use dye inks and others, pigment inks. What's the difference?

[Neo]

The difference lies in the way the inks are mixed to create colours. Dye inks uses liquid dye, so the liquid dyes are mixed to generate the various colours. Pigment inks uses microscopic power dyes suspended in fluid to create colours. Because liquids mix completely, dye inks are superior in creating a wider colour gamut, and the final result is a vibrant photo. Pigment inks do not mix as well, so the colour gamut is more limited. Compared to dye inks which sink into the paper, pigment ink sits on top of the paper. This means that pigment inks do not print well on most glossy paper, so most users will print on matte paper instead. However, because of the stable nature of the powered pigments, pigment inks tend to last longer than dye inks.

That is the difference in a nutshell.

[Bernard Ong]

Pigment inks are waterproof. I using Epson C65 which features Durabrite technology. It is not a dedicated photo printer. It uses pigment ink which, when dip in water after printing, will stay intact while the equivalent using dyes will smurge when dip in water.

Saw a demo during an exhibition last year.

[ady]

Thanks for the info. I can't remember... but is the Canon/Epson dye/pigment ink?

[Nikonian Foo]

Cool explanation...I only know dye ink gives rich colours but does not last as long as pigment ink. However, there are development on dye ink that last longer....dunno who produces them....Pigment ink also has more resin (or something like that) that increases the chance of printhead clog.

[Neo]

The race is definitely on for pigment inks and dye inks. Dye ink manufacturers are trying to make their inks last as long as 100 years, while pigment inks manufacturers are trying to make their colours more vibrant. There were a couple of threads two days ago that discussed Canon's new dye inks that can last 100 years, from the current 25 years.

[student]

Originally Posted by Neo The difference lies in the way the inks are mixed to create colours. Dye inks uses liquid dye, so the liquid dyes are mixed to generate the various colours. Pigment inks uses microscopic power dyes suspended in fluid to create colours. Because liquids mix completely, dye inks are superior in creating a wider colour gamut, and the final result is a vibrant photo. Pigment inks do not mix as well, so the colour gamut is more limited. Compared to dye inks which sink into the paper, pigment ink sits on top of the paper. This means that pigment inks do not print well on most glossy paper, so most users will print on matte paper instead. However, because of the stable nature of the powered pigments, pigment inks tend to last longer than dye inks. That is the difference in a nutshell.

Thank you for a simple and clear explanation. Useful for a non-digital bloke like me!

[Lensman]

Quote: If i have a son, i will name him Nick Ong (NIKON)

Hahahah....

For me, if it is a daugther, it should be Cano Ng (CANON).

But will watch her diet, otherwise people will say that she will be round like a tua-pow....

OOT aside. I have seen those bottles of ink by the side of the printers during the past few IT shows. Cost about $200++ to setup and claims to save $$$$$$ . Have anyone tried this and how are the quality ?

Cheers

[Pablo]

Originally Posted by Neo The difference lies in the way the inks are mixed to create colours. Dye inks uses liquid dye, so the liquid dyes are mixed to generate the various colours. Pigment inks uses microscopic power dyes suspended in fluid to create colours. Because liquids mix completely, dye inks are superior in creating a wider colour gamut, and the final result is a vibrant photo. Pigment inks do not mix as well, so the colour gamut is more limited. Compared to dye inks which sink into the paper, pigment ink sits on top of the paper. This means that pigment inks do not print well on most glossy paper, so most users will print on matte paper instead. However, because of the stable nature of the powered pigments, pigment inks tend to last longer than dye inks. That is the difference in a nutshell.

Hi Neo,
That is a most informative explanation
I will take note of your excellent understanding.
As a sales person in digital imaging, I have never had it put to me in such a good manner.
One side says why theirs is better and the other side does the same.
Thank you very much for your non commital explanation

[Neo]

Hi Pablo,

You're most welcome!

[Zplus]

Originally Posted by Lensman OOT aside. I have seen those bottles of ink by the side of the printers during the past few IT shows. Cost about $200++ to setup and claims to save $$$$$$ . Have anyone tried this and how are the quality ?

Amazing stuff. I like the colors. Default profile of the printer gets me close to onscreen colors. I am leaving some prints in the open to see how long they last before fading. They are dye inks supposedly from USA.

[Watcher]

Originally Posted by Neo The race is definitely on for pigment inks and dye inks. Dye ink manufacturers are trying to make their inks last as long as 100 years, while pigment inks manufacturers are trying to make their colours more vibrant. There were a couple of threads two days ago that discussed Canon's new dye inks that can last 100 years, from the current 25 years.

The details is in the testing. Read the way that is tested properly.

Generally, pigments will last longer than dye.

[tim]

Originally Posted by Neo The race is definitely on for pigment inks and dye inks. Dye ink manufacturers are trying to make their inks last as long as 100 years, while pigment inks manufacturers are trying to make their colours more vibrant. There were a couple of threads two days ago that discussed Canon's new dye inks that can last 100 years, from the current 25 years.

This's what I get from Canon Japan..... This is the full statement which is a bit long so bear with it. Notice the duration of the new dye inks under what conditions it will lasts 25 years and 100 years;

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Canon's devotion

Canon Bubble Jet Printers are designed to print stunning digital photos with true-to-life colour reproduction at an astonishing speed. This achievement comes from a thorough study on the process of taking digital photos to printing. Even a beautiful picture can become dull if you choose the wrong photo paper. This is why Canon focuses on creating the best matching photo papers for digital cameras and Bubble Jet Printers.

Ordinary photo papers are coated with a material having a silica base. This paper is easier to produce at low cost without sacrificing photo quality.
However, Canon uses a first class coating material called "alumina" to achieve the best photo prints. Alumina (aluminium oxide) requires a high level of processing technology because it is the next hardest substance to diamonds and is difficult to process. Although it is difficult to manufacture, the resulting printouts are far better (in terms of glossiness /colour reproduction / high speed of ink absorption) than those using normal silica based photo paper. This is why we use alumina for our best papers. The experience gained over our long history of manufacturing imaging products has been the driving force for the creation of high-speed printing products and superb photo prints.

All dyes change over time due to the effects of light, atmospheric pollutants, high temperatures and humidity. In order to achieve the longest life of your print and minimise any colour change, your prints should be displayed in an album, clear photo sleeves or glass picture frames. Protecting your prints from direct exposure to air will greatly improve the life of your prints.

Canon's continuing research and development of photo papers has led to enhancement of the ozone tolerance level. Photo Paper Pro offers "image permanence of up to 100 years (when stored in an album) or 25 years (when stored in a photo frame)."

We believe this website will help you understand the basics of digital photo printings; and will help you to create very special photo prints.

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[Zerstorer]

Agree.

This has been echoed in a previous thread:
http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthrea...=102823&page=1

Even epson and hp dye-based inks which are supposedly more resistant to gas fading than canon can have noticeable fade in a matter of 1-2weeks under exposed storage. The paper used is a key factor, with nanoporous papers being the most susceptible.

[Lensman]

Originally Posted by Zplus Amazing stuff. I like the colors. Default profile of the printer gets me close to onscreen colors. I am leaving some prints in the open to see how long they last before fading. They are dye inks supposedly from USA.

Do let us know the result.

saw it on sale at SLS this afternoon. About $120 for the setup and $20 for extra bottle of ink...

Now the next challenge is to find affordable photo papers....

[Watcher]

Originally Posted by tim This's what I get from Canon Japan..... This is the full statement which is a bit long so bear with it. Notice the duration of the new dye inks under what conditions it will lasts 25 years and 100 years; <press release snipped>

Sigh,
They basically confirmed two things:

1. That they are replacing their PPP with a new paper with coating. Other existing papers by Canon and others like Ilford need not apply.
2. The longevity is measured by keeping behind glass and plastics. This is not always the case

If you really want to read about longevity, look at what many pros deem as the de-facto industry spokesman/standard http://www.wilhelm-research.com/