Nikon Micro + close up filter question

sofunny · 8th December 2004

i want to take some picture for laser marking products like chip, processor. with those Pin, gold wire on that.

i use 105mm Micro 1:1, but it seems still not big enough, not close enough.
so may i know is the close up filter + my lens will work fine?
or i need to use the 60mm 1:1 lens? i do not want wonderful pictures, just as clear, as big as it can be.

Thanks

andy9110 · 8th December 2004

i dun think you would wanna attach closeup filter to your lens cos this will soften the picture at the edges of the focused area.
if you wanna have bigger pic, my suggestion is either add a teleconverter or an extension tube

espn · 8th December 2004

Nikkor has the 4T, 5T, 6T.

Canon has 250D and 500D.

Take ur pick

deadpixel · 9th December 2004

Adding close up filters to your Nikon micro is one easy solution but it will soften the images, particularly in the areas away from the centre.

You might want to try reverse mounting a 50mm lens onto your 105mm. This combination gives some pretty extreme macros, like this one:

An adaptor ring for reverse mounting two lenses together only costs $18 but may be next to impossible to find in SG. I checked with all of the usual shops and many less well known ones but most didn't even know what I was talking about. I ended up getting a friend who was coming back from the US to pick one up for me.

andy9110 · 9th December 2004

hi bro deadpixel,
i find the way you stack the 50mm lens to another macro lens is very unique.... as i am also a macro extremist, i would like to ask a few question from you.

i dun understand how the adaptor ring work? do you mean that the adaptor ring stack both the 50mm lens and the macro lens together to produce such powerful effect?

and also i would like to get one of the adaptor ring too. and like what you say that the shop in singapore dun sell one ring like this, is there anyway i can get it from you or something

many thanks
cheers

joteo · 9th December 2004

Originally Posted by deadpixel

You might want to try reverse mounting a 50mm lens onto your 105mm.

An adaptor ring for reverse mounting two lenses together only costs $18 but may be next to impossible to find in SG. I checked with all of the usual shops and many less well known ones but most didn't even know what I was talking about. I ended up getting a friend who was coming back from the US to pick one up for me.

This was precisely what I was thinking of. I remember reading about it somewhere, but people all suggest using the lens directly reverse mounted on the body. Could you tell me if this retains all the convenience of metering? Also, what kind of working distance do you have when doing it in this manner?

Thanks
joanne

deadpixel · 9th December 2004

Originally Posted by andy9110

i dun understand how the adaptor ring work? do you mean that the adaptor ring stack both the 50mm lens and the macro lens together to produce such powerful effect?

Yep. What you will be doing is mounting your macro lens on your camera the normal way and then reverse mounting the 50mm lens on the macro lens with the help of this adaptor. Actually, what I should say is that the lens mounted on the camera does not need to be a macro lens, it is more important for it to be a medium (105-200mm) telephoto lense. You can see the adaptor here:

Macro Coupler Adaptor

And I'll try to put up a photo of the camera + lenses setup tomorrow (my other camera's in the office) so you can get a clearer picture.

Originally Posted by andy9110

and also i would like to get one of the adaptor ring too. and like what you say that the shop in singapore dun sell one ring like this, is there anyway i can get it from you or something

Hmmm, I am planning on ordering a couple of other hard to find items and getting my friend to bring them back for me but this will be in about 2 - 3 weeks time. If you don't mind waiting, I can notify you when I'm about to make the order and add an order in for yours.

Cheers

deadpixel · 10th December 2004

Originally Posted by joteo

This was precisely what I was thinking of. I remember reading about it somewhere, but people all suggest using the lens directly reverse mounted on the body. Could you tell me if this retains all the convenience of metering? Also, what kind of working distance do you have when doing it in this manner?

Thanks
joanne

That's the beauty of this setup, you still get metering. You won't have AF though but in such situations you may not want it anyway.

The working distance varies, from being as close as .25 inches to a few inches but even then, there are people who've successfully taken photos of insects with this combination. I came across a gallery in SmugMug that had extreme macro photos of insects.

Cheers

chgoh · 10th December 2004

Thot the following Kirk Photo link might be interesting for some of you. Quote from the page:

Originally Posted by Kirk Photo

Stacking rings let you mount a reversed short (35 to 50mm) lens to the front of a longer lens for macro image magnification on the order of 2X to 4X. The short lens should have a fixed focal length. Magnification (at infinity) is figured by dividing the short focal length into the longer focal length (50mm divided into 135mm equals a magnification of 2.7X). Stacked lenses work well with macro-flash lighting.

chgoh @ 12:12am, 10 Dec 2004

joteo · 10th December 2004

Originally Posted by deadpixel

That's the beauty of this setup, you still get metering. You won't have AF though but in such situations you may not want it anyway.

Thanks for helping me verify.

When you focus, do you focus on both lenses? Or just the one attached to your body?

Any problems with vignetting?

I was thinking of either mounting a reverse 50mm on the kit lens of the D70 (67mm diameter) or the 70-300mm G lens (62mm diameter). And if I eventually get the funds to get a real macro, maybe the Tamron 90 macro?

Any drawbacks of the three? The 67mm diameter of the kit lens seems to be a problem.

Do you protect the back of your 50mm with a BR-3 + filter? I've seen some 2nd hand old ones - are they all made the same?

Also, from what I understand, when you mount the lens reverse, generally, you want to open up the aperture all the way right - I mean if I use a lens other than the 50mm fixed focal length? Does this mean that I should only get those old nikon lenses (I don't know the codes, AF/D/G etc) but those with the apeture ring on it and all that - the manual type? Or can I just go into any shop and get a new 50mm?

Sorry for the multitude of questions...

Thanks

deadpixel · 10th December 2004

Here's the setup I sometimes use:

You'll notice that the camera is attached to a Manfrotto 454 Micro Positioning Plate. This plate is really, really useful when you wish to have maximum magnification and need to move the camera back and forth to get the best focus.

The object being magnified is a small foam earplug. Notice how small it is in comparison with the lens or the nearby remote.

This is a shot of the adaptor holding the two lenses together.

And this is a shot of the earplug, no composition here, just a quick shot:

This is the entire frame, no cropping. If you hold the earplug in your hands and look at it without any magnification, the big craters are actually the size of tiny pin pricks.

Cheers

deadpixel · 10th December 2004

Originally Posted by joteo

When you focus, do you focus on both lenses? Or just the one attached to your body?

Any problems with vignetting?

You only focus with the lens attached to the body and there is no vignetting if the reversed lens is opened all the way.

Originally Posted by joteo

I was thinking of either mounting a reverse 50mm on the kit lens of the D70 (67mm diameter) or the 70-300mm G lens (62mm diameter). And if I eventually get the funds to get a real macro, maybe the Tamron 90 macro?

Any drawbacks of the three? The 67mm diameter of the kit lens seems to be a problem.

You should not have any issues mounting it on the kit lens except for getting an adaptor of the right size, but the thing you need to remember is that you get best results when the lens is reverse mounted onto a medium telephoto zoom/prime, so your best bet would be to reverse mount it on your 70-300mm.

Originally Posted by joteo

Do you protect the back of your 50mm with a BR-3 + filter? I've seen some 2nd hand old ones - are they all made the same?

I don't, but I really should. I've been having problems getting one as all the stores I've been to are sold out. Even the web stores in the US are backordered.

Originally Posted by joteo

Also, from what I understand, when you mount the lens reverse, generally, you want to open up the aperture all the way right - I mean if I use a lens other than the 50mm fixed focal length? Does this mean that I should only get those old nikon lenses (I don't know the codes, AF/D/G etc) but those with the apeture ring on it and all that - the manual type? Or can I just go into any shop and get a new 50mm?

The purpose of opening up the aperture all the way is to avoid vignetting. "D" type lenses, (the ones with the aperture ring) are fine. You should avoid "G" type lenses as you'll need to hold the aperature open. I believe all the current Nikkor 50mms are still "D" type lenses so you can just get a new one.

Originally Posted by joteo

Sorry for the multitude of questions...

Thanks

No worries.

Cheers

sofunny · 10th December 2004

wow, where to buy such ring?

benedium · 10th December 2004

wah deadpixel, thanks so much for sharing your extreme macro setup with us man. I"m gonna try to find the 58-52mm macro coupler already... Hope Cathay Photo has it.

Also does anyone remember what is used to protect the back of the 50mm lens with/without filter?

gooseberry · 10th December 2004

Have a look here, the guy did these with a 50mm reversed onto a Sigma 18-50mm

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...essage=9140021

He didn't even use a reverse ring adapter, just held the 50mm in front. So using the 18-70mm kit lens should be fine.

joteo · 10th December 2004

Originally Posted by benedium

wah deadpixel, thanks so much for sharing your extreme macro setup with us man. I"m gonna try to find the 58-52mm macro coupler already... Hope Cathay Photo has it.

Also does anyone remember what is used to protect the back of the 50mm lens with/without filter?

It's the BR-3. There are some second hand ones around.

joteo · 10th December 2004

Originally Posted by deadpixel

You should not have any issues mounting it on the kit lens except for getting an adaptor of the right size, but the thing you need to remember is that you get best results when the lens is reverse mounted onto a medium telephoto zoom/prime, so your best bet would be to reverse mount it on your 70-300mm.

Great. This way, I know what size coupler to get

So many filter thread sizes! Did you say you're ordering something from B&H? Can I tag on an order?

Will I be able to use the lens at any range of the zoom depending on the magnification I want?

Would you advise this type of setup for live/moving insect photos? All the examples so far are inanimate objects.

Originally Posted by deadpixel

I don't, but I really should. I've been having problems getting one as all the stores I've been to are sold out. Even the web stores in the US are backordered.

There's one at B&H second hand. $10 only.

Appreciate all your indepth answers.

thanks

deadpixel · 10th December 2004

Originally Posted by joteo

Great. This way, I know what size coupler to get So many filter thread sizes! Did you say you're ordering something from B&H? Can I tag on an order?

Yep, I'll be ordering in 2-3 weeks time. I'll let you know when I'm ordering so that you and others can tag along.

Originally Posted by joteo

Will I be able to use the lens at any range of the zoom depending on the magnification I want?

Yes you will.

Originally Posted by joteo

Would you advise this type of setup for live/moving insect photos? All the examples so far are inanimate objects.

There is a guy who has a gallery of extreme insect photos, some of which were taken with the 105mm + 50mm setup, over at SmugMug. Here's the link to the gallery:

Extreme Insect Gallery

If that does not inspire you to try out this type of photography, nothing will.

Originally Posted by joteo

There's one at B&H second hand. $10 only.

Great, I'll have to check it out.

Cheers

Zenten · 10th December 2004

Originally Posted by deadpixel

Yep, I'll be ordering in 2-3 weeks time. I'll let you know when I'm ordering so that you and others can tag along.

Yes you will.

There is a guy who has a gallery of extreme insect photos, some of which were taken with the 105mm + 50mm setup, over at SmugMug. Here's the link to the gallery:

Extreme Insect Gallery

If that does not inspire you to try out this type of photography, nothing will.

Great, I'll have to check it out.

Cheers

That guy you are talking about is Tchuanye (a Panasonic FZ user :thumbsup

) Check him out in the Panasonic Forum. He would be more than willing to share a tip or two.

deadpixel · 10th December 2004

Originally Posted by Zenten

That guy you are talking about is Tchuanye (a Panasonic FZ user :thumbsup ) Check him out in the Panasonic Forum. He would be more than willing to share a tip or two.

I've seen and admire

Tchuanye's photos at his gallery:

http://tchuanye.smugmug.com/

But the guy I'm referring to is Arek Daniel who uses a Nikon D70 and his gallery is at:

http://flyeroz.smugmug.com/

Are they the same person?

8th December 2004	#1
sofunny Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 399	Nikon Micro + close up filter question i want to take some picture for laser marking products like chip, processor. with those Pin, gold wire on that. i use 105mm Micro 1:1, but it seems still not big enough, not close enough. so may i know is the close up filter + my lens will work fine? or i need to use the 60mm 1:1 lens? i do not want wonderful pictures, just as clear, as big as it can be. Thanks

9th December 2004	#4
deadpixel Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: East Posts: 1,252	Adding close up filters to your Nikon micro is one easy solution but it will soften the images, particularly in the areas away from the centre. You might want to try reverse mounting a 50mm lens onto your 105mm. This combination gives some pretty extreme macros, like this one: An adaptor ring for reverse mounting two lenses together only costs $18 but may be next to impossible to find in SG. I checked with all of the usual shops and many less well known ones but most didn't even know what I was talking about. I ended up getting a friend who was coming back from the US to pick one up for me. __________________ My Gallery IR Photography Black & White

10th December 2004	#11
deadpixel Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: East Posts: 1,252	Here's the setup I sometimes use: You'll notice that the camera is attached to a Manfrotto 454 Micro Positioning Plate. This plate is really, really useful when you wish to have maximum magnification and need to move the camera back and forth to get the best focus. The object being magnified is a small foam earplug. Notice how small it is in comparison with the lens or the nearby remote. This is a shot of the adaptor holding the two lenses together. And this is a shot of the earplug, no composition here, just a quick shot: This is the entire frame, no cropping. If you hold the earplug in your hands and look at it without any magnification, the big craters are actually the size of tiny pin pricks. Cheers __________________ My Gallery IR Photography Black & White

8th December 2004	#2
andy9110 Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 317	i dun think you would wanna attach closeup filter to your lens cos this will soften the picture at the edges of the focused area. if you wanna have bigger pic, my suggestion is either add a teleconverter or an extension tube

8th December 2004	#3
espn Deregistered Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Planet Nikon Posts: 22,045	Nikkor has the 4T, 5T, 6T. Canon has 250D and 500D. Take ur pick

10th December 2004	#14
benedium Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Upp Thomson Posts: 1,188	wah deadpixel, thanks so much for sharing your extreme macro setup with us man. I"m gonna try to find the 58-52mm macro coupler already... Hope Cathay Photo has it. Also does anyone remember what is used to protect the back of the 50mm lens with/without filter?

10th December 2004	#15
gooseberry Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Central West Posts: 1,913	Have a look here, the guy did these with a 50mm reversed onto a Sigma 18-50mm http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...essage=9140021 He didn't even use a reverse ring adapter, just held the 50mm in front. So using the 18-70mm kit lens should be fine.