will FLM eventually disappear??

[user111]

what if one day all dslr become fullframe? then there will b no more 1.6x, 1.3x, 1.5x crop factor liaoz...then its bye bye to the magical multiplier effect that so many of us long shooters dreamed of ie suddenly all your 200mm stop behaving like 300mm and go back to the old days of being 200mm only, and all your 400mm stop behaving like 600mm and remain as 400m only..then all of us got to go back and use the bulky 28-70/2.8 which extends when zooming instead of the lighter 17-35/2.8 which doesnt extend when zooming..sob sob

[vince123123]

2.8 lens will extend while zooming??

anyway when got full frame, all you have to do is to crop to 1.5/1.6/1.3 and you get back your FLM. its just cropping, not a teleconvertor effect.

Originally Posted by user111 what if one day all dslr become fullframe? then there will b no more 1.6x, 1.3x, 1.5x crop factor liaoz...then its bye bye to the magical multiplier effect that so many of us long shooters dreamed of ie suddenly all your 200mm stop behaving like 300mm and go back to the old days of being 200mm only, and all your 400mm stop behaving like 600mm and remain as 400m only..then all of us got to go back and use the bulky 28-70/2.8 which extends when zooming instead of the lighter 17-35/2.8 which doesnt extend when zooming..sob sob

[user111]

was referring to the EF 28-70 /2.8 USM L. the zoom barrel extends outwards when zoom towards the wide end. normally people use it with hood on so the extending action is hidden by the hood

crop is ok but the magical magnifying effect is lost when in the u r out in field shooting leh

[Allan Teo]

Originally Posted by user111 what if one day all dslr become fullframe? then there will b no more 1.6x, 1.3x, 1.5x crop factor liaoz...then its bye bye to the magical multiplier effect that so many of us long shooters dreamed of

I think the CCD technology needs to fix its in-ability to
capture the same TONAL range as FILM.

For example if you are standing in a courtyard photo
graphing an Arch and behind the arch is a river with boats
and the sun is shining right into your camera.

A film shot will show the brightness and the boats
and river behind the arch in a blurred fashion but you
can see it..

With today's CCD the same shot can be captured as RAW
and you bring it home into your PC and try to process it.

You will find that you can get the boats in the sunlight behind
the arch but you cannot see the subject in front of the arch
and vice versa.

Allan

[ckiang]

Depending on which camp you are, the FLM may or may not disappear. We may well end up with both types of systems. This FLM thing has long been debated to death btw, and each camp has its own reasonings and all. I personally don't think it's a very big issue. Both Canon and Nikon now have lenses designed for half-frame sensors. Like Allan said the bigger issue is for the sensor to have a bigger dynamic range.

Regards
CK

[user111]

aiya..sianz. actually FLM is more important to me than dynamic range since nowadayw dynaic range so gd already i cant see a diff

[vince123123]

when you get ur FF camera , just crop the centre portion and you get back your FLM already lor :P :P

Originally Posted by user111 aiya..sianz. actually FLM is more important to me than dynamic range since nowadayw dynaic range so gd already i cant see a diff

[blurblock]

Originally Posted by user111 aiya..sianz. actually FLM is more important to me than dynamic range since nowadayw dynaic range so gd already i cant see a diff

huh ???? I can't figure out what the heck are you trying to say

[user111]

as in u compare the same scene shot with film and dslr i cant see any diff in dynamic range...all those sharpness/contrast/saturation/brightness/hue/etc/etc use PS adjust here and there will look nice ncie us like film already

[blurblock]

Originally Posted by user111 as in u compare the same scene shot with film and dslr i cant see any diff in dynamic range...all those sharpness/contrast/saturation/brightness/hue/etc/etc use PS adjust here and there will look nice ncie us like film already

who give you that idea? No matter how you adjust, when you cannot capture the details, you cannot capture the detail ......

[hazmee]

I agree on that part about film. Digital photography just makes me do more post-processing work, sometimes a lot more guessing work as in how the color and contrast should look like(I am guessing most of the time). Other than that, digital is pretty ok. Film still gives me the 'shiok' feeling. Digital... oh well... its about bloody time they do something about the light capturing device.

Its all about money... moneeeyyyy.

And back to the main topic, yes I would love to own a full-frame digital camera. I think I have to wait 10 more years.

[scanner]

Originally Posted by vince123123 2.8 lens will extend while zooming?? anyway when got full frame, all you have to do is to crop to 1.5/1.6/1.3 and you get back your FLM. its just cropping, not a teleconvertor effect.

No.. not all 2.8 D lens extend while zooming. Referring to AFS 28-70 2.8D, yes it does. But it will not be an issue when len hood is mounted on, it will not be obvious.

[user111]

ok la. whatever.. nevermind. i will just pray hard that the makers leave some non fullframe dslrs to exist and survive in the market for us long-shooters. thanks for feedback

[Ah Pao]

With most (if not all) camera manufactures coming up with "digital only" lenses for their DSLR (think EF-S and DX, not to mention Digital Zuiko)...<FF DSLRs are here to stay. Imagine the R&D costs put into developing the "digital" lenses; don't think they are going to pull out anytime soon.

For real FF DSLR, my prediction is that they are going to be a niche market, more to woo medium- and big-format film users into the 35mm DSLR market. It's super-duper expensive to own a digital back for MF.

[blurblock]

Originally Posted by Ah Pao With most (if not all) camera manufactures coming up with "digital only" lenses for their DSLR (think EF-S and DX, not to mention Digital Zuiko)...<FF DSLRs are here to stay. Imagine the R&D costs put into developing the "digital" lenses; don't think they are going to pull out anytime soon. For real FF DSLR, my prediction is that they are going to be a niche market, more to woo medium- and big-format film users into the 35mm DSLR market. It's super-duper expensive to own a digital back for MF.

Actually, there are not much R&D cost in developing "digital" lenses .... it is just a cropped 35mm lens, which decreases their cost, that is about all.

EF-S has no significent as it is just an extra protruding material to prevent the lens from being used in normal body only. Saw off the protruding piece and it work like a EF lens.

[Ah Pao]

Originally Posted by blurblock Actually, there are not much R&D cost in developing "digital" lenses .... it is just a cropped 35mm lens, which decreases their cost, that is about all. EF-S has no significent as it is just an extra protruding material to prevent the lens from being used in normal body only. Saw off the protruding piece and it work like a EF lens.

Granted...but seeing how Canon is committed to support the EF-S standard (new lenses, 580EX integration), I do think <FF DSLRs will be a mainstay--it's not a stop-gap solution before economical FF DSLRs become widespread.

[blurblock]

I hardly felt it would be a stop-gap solution. In fact, I think it is going to stay, unlike APS which offer no advantage.

35mm flim was created in the time where Large and Medium format are widespread, no one thought it is going to stay, but it is still well and alive and surving pretty well, because it has something Medium and Large format don't, portability.

For Crop factor DSLR, the reason for it's popularity is due to it's lower cost. In fact I think "Economical" FF DSLR will not be anytime soon. In fact, if I am Canon or Nikon, I would not want to create too many Economical FF DSLR and have it remain as a niche market. Manufacturing a FF Sensor is not a difficult task anymore, but I think the main reason for not creating FF sensor is because C and N and all other Camera producers still want a difference between "Professional" and "Semi Professional" cameras. I would want to sell 5 FF DSLR at $10K each then to sell 25 FF DSLR at $2K each, lower my cost and reap more benefit. While giving the user of FF DSLR a sense of Superiority.

[glennyong]

i believe the main thing of a FF camera is one crucial factor..

and the crucial factor is...

CHEAPER FF CAMERA so i will be more accessible.. but i think the flim is fun.. it can be more exciting to send it for developing and wonder hw will the picture be looked like.... hahahaha

[reno77]

We wont get cheap FLM's until a new non silicon CCD/CMOS chip is invented or someone figures out how to make cheap silicon wafers. So that the limiting factor for price wont be the silicon wafer size anymore. Plastic Logic's technology looks promising. Printing electronics directly on to plastic.