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Thread: The "Dark Ages" of AA vs non-AA war has begun thanks to the impressive D800E

  1. #21
    Senior Member edutilos-'s Avatar
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    Default Re: The "Dark Ages" of AA vs non-AA war has begun thanks to the impressive D800E

    Quote Originally Posted by pbear1973 View Post
    Yep.. given the well known crisp image qualities of the M9 and X100 - both cameras having no AA filter - I'm not at all surprised that people would spring US$300 to have the filter disabled. Add to that the problem of moire patterns seems to be exaggerated. Over 1000 shots later on my X100 I've seen moire patterns only once. And damn the pictures are crisp!

    Nikon makes great DSLRs.. but more importantly they're really astute marketers. From what I understand the 1-series is a pretty decent success despite the small sensor.
    Well, then maybe the default choice should be the D800E, and a Moire-Reduction feature thrown in, since it obviously can be resolved in post production. This can work like some of the lens distortion correction features that you can find in the Pentax K5 and Pentax K-r, the shot will take longer to be produced, and has to be outputted as JPG, but it will remove the moire.

  2. #22

    Default Re: The "Dark Ages" of AA vs non-AA war has begun thanks to the impressive D800E

    As noted by alantkh, there is an AA filter in front of the D800E. I find dpreview's explanation most persuasive (pls check out their diagram in their hands on preview).

    "Nikon uses slightly curious wording about the D800E - that the anti-aliasing effect of the optical filter stack in front of the sensor is 'cancelled' - and the diagram below shows what this means (courtesy of Nikon). Anti-aliasing filters work by using a birefringent material to split light rays into two based upon the polarization of the light; a first layer splits it horizontally, the second vertically. The practical result is a slight blurring of the image, to avoid moiré and aliasing artefacts. In the case of the D800E, the first filter is instead directly counteracted by the second, resulting in no overall blurring.

    This seems like an odd way of doing things; why not just remove the filter altogether? Our best guess is that it simply makes manufacturing the two models side-by-side easier: instead of having to make an entirely different filter stack for the D800E, Nikon just needs to change the first low-pass filter in the overall assembly. Crucially, this keeps the same infrared blocking and anti-reflective properties across the two cameras."

    Hope this helps.

  3. #23

    Default Re: The "Dark Ages" of AA vs non-AA war has begun thanks to the impressive D800E

    Quote Originally Posted by edutilos- View Post
    Well, then maybe the default choice should be the D800E, and a Moire-Reduction feature thrown in, since it obviously can be resolved in post production. This can work like some of the lens distortion correction features that you can find in the Pentax K5 and Pentax K-r, the shot will take longer to be produced, and has to be outputted as JPG, but it will remove the moire.
    Ahh so sell the D800 at a $350 discount over the D800E.

    Actually you have a good point; forget the AA filters altogether, and apply the anti-aliasing when rendering the JPGs. On the post-processing side of things, Lightroom 3 has excellent lens-correction features, I'm pretty sure adding in some kind of moire-removing algorithm won't be impossible. Using it won't be tedious either. Just select all the images, click "remove moire", then "sync", and it's done.
    Last edited by pbear1973; 8th February 2012 at 03:42 PM.
    Stuff I'm reasonably proud of: http://www.flickr.com/photos/ctky1973/

  4. #24

    Default Re: The "Dark Ages" of AA vs non-AA war has begun thanks to the impressive D800E

    i am correct the AA filters is a physical item? if it is removed does that mean less protection to the sensor and cleaning the sensor will be more difficult?

  5. #25
    Member Akira Fudou's Avatar
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    Its never about the physical item u r paying. It's the performance. The main highlight here is you get sharper image.

  6. #26

    Default Re: The "Dark Ages" of AA vs non-AA war has begun thanks to the impressive D800E

    Quote Originally Posted by happyranchu View Post
    i am correct the AA filters is a physical item? if it is removed does that mean less protection to the sensor and cleaning the sensor will be more difficult?
    The AA filter is still there, just configured so that the layers cancel each other out.
    Stuff I'm reasonably proud of: http://www.flickr.com/photos/ctky1973/

  7. #27

    Default Re: The "Dark Ages" of AA vs non-AA war has begun thanks to the impressive D800E

    I am wondering how the so called weaker AA filter of D800E will affect in-camera JPEG downsizing and resampling on moired objects...

    It could be a disaster if used by amateurs who do not know what they are expecting. We saw just shoot raw and apply correction... but 36 mpx of raw files scares even the iron-heart mpx man.

    Friends & bros... sharpness is not the holy grail. Please take into account tonality, colour & lens characteristics.
    Last edited by surrephoto; 10th February 2012 at 11:40 PM.

  8. #28

    Default Re: The "Dark Ages" of AA vs non-AA war has begun thanks to the impressive D800E

    All along most compact and DSLR comes with AA filter, only medium format do not have AA filter due to the sheer Megapixel, the D800E will be more appealing to those medium format users due to the number of lenses compare to medium format lenses...

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by strikeback4
    All along most compact and DSLR comes with AA filter, only medium format do not have AA filter due to the sheer Megapixel, the D800E will be more appealing to those medium format users due to the number of lenses compare to medium format lenses...
    It's also so much cheaper than any medium format digital. A hasselblad is like... 20k body only?
    Stuff I'm reasonably proud of: http://www.flickr.com/photos/ctky1973/

  10. #30

    Default Re: The "Dark Ages" of AA vs non-AA war has begun thanks to the impressive D800E

    also don't forget the price of their digital back as well?

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