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Thread: Why Your Camera Does Not Matter

  1. #61

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    If you are good, the camera don't matter. If you are not good, the camera don't matter also. So, yes, I agree with the topic title.

  2. #62
    Senior Member Pablo's Avatar
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    Hi, a twist to the subject of self ability and equipment ability ...
    I was in England for a year some time ago.
    A friend and I were both quite good Pool and 8 ball players.
    We both carried our own cues and chalk etc.
    We used to meet at the local nightly and generally clean up on the tables.
    Probably once or twice a week, this lovely old man used to come in and give us a game.
    He would just grab any cue (tip on it or not, TRUE) and he would just clean up the table.
    This is true.
    It is not what you have, it is how good you are at using what you have.
    Time, is an effortless construction :)

  3. #63

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    Age must be catching with me! I am not longer as clever as I used to be (?maybe I was never as clever as I thought I was! - but in any case, my logical reasoning and cogntive abilities must have deteriorated quite rapidly, certainly in the last few days.

    It is clear to me (despite my mental impairment) that one can do wonders with the simplest of equipment is one possess the right abilties, such as that described by Pablo regarding the gentleman with superb pool skills. I also remember many years ago, when squash was very popular, that my friends who were B graders (I think they were called that those days) were sounding beaten by an old frail man with a simple squash racket.

    Ah, the wonderful things that one can do with wonderful skills and abilities.

    Cleverly and succcintly summarised by LimCB. Thank you.

    But I also wonder why the undoubtable Cartier-Bresson did not take the camera that Ansel Adams used for his great landscapes of the American SouthWest? You know those 8x10 camera with the glass plates that you have to coat on the spot, and have to be carried by a donkey? Of course with his great skills, Cartier-Bression can surely capture all those wonderful "decisive moments" with the view camera! And do it surreptiously without the subject knowing!

    Similarly I have the highest respect for David Douglas Duncan. His war pictures are surely classic! I think no one will doubt DDD's skills. But he too did not chose the view camera! Of maybe, the view camera's resolution was too low for him?

    On the other hand, I wonder why Ansel Adams did not use the Leica to take his magnificant landscapes with such breathing beauty that even Stieglitz was impressed!?

    Perhaps there is a lesson somewhere.

    Perhaps even the "greats" needed the RIGHT TOOL?

    Perhaps CB and AA knew that the choice of the camera does count?

    Of perhaps Cartier-Bresson knew something that our knowledgeable colleagues in this forum did not know?

  4. #64
    Senior Member Pablo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by student
    Age must be catching with me! I am not longer as clever as I used to be (?maybe I was never as clever as I thought I was! - but in any case, my logical reasoning and cogntive abilities must have deteriorated quite rapidly, certainly in the last few days.

    It is clear to me (despite my mental impairment) that one can do wonders with the simplest of equipment is one possess the right abilties, such as that described by Pablo regarding the gentleman with superb pool skills. I also remember many years ago, when squash was very popular, that my friends who were B graders (I think they were called that those days) were sounding beaten by an old frail man with a simple squash racket.

    Ah, the wonderful things that one can do with wonderful skills and abilities.

    Cleverly and succcintly summarised by LimCB. Thank you.
    Yes, very true.

    A person that has skill can do well with what is at hand; rather than say," I need better than THIS, for me to perform.
    Time, is an effortless construction :)

  5. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pablo
    Yes, very true.

    A person that has skill can do well with what is at hand; rather than say," I need better than THIS, for me to perform.

    My apologies for bad grammar. My mind and eyes are deteriorating faster than I thought.

    Thank you for quoting the first part of my post. But I think there is a second part, if my memory did not fail me. Perhaps you did not read the second part?

    If you read the second part, then perhaps it might be politely construed as mischievous to only quote me in part? But if not politely, how shall we construe the omission of the whole?

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by student
    Age must be catching with me! I am not longer as clever as I used to be (?maybe I was never as clever as I thought I was! - but in any case, my logical reasoning and cogntive abilities must have deteriorated quite rapidly, certainly in the last few days.

    It is clear to me (despite my mental impairment) that one can do wonders with the simplest of equipment is one possess the right abilties, such as that described by Pablo regarding the gentleman with superb pool skills. I also remember many years ago, when squash was very popular, that my friends who were B graders (I think they were called that those days) were sounding beaten by an old frail man with a simple squash racket.

    Ah, the wonderful things that one can do with wonderful skills and abilities.

    Cleverly and succcintly summarised by LimCB. Thank you.

    But I also wonder why the undoubtable Cartier-Bresson did not take the camera that Ansel Adams used for his great landscapes of the American SouthWest? You know those 8x10 camera with the glass plates that you have to coat on the spot, and have to be carried by a donkey? Of course with his great skills, Cartier-Bression can surely capture all those wonderful "decisive moments" with the view camera! And do it surreptiously without the subject knowing!

    Similarly I have the highest respect for David Douglas Duncan. His war pictures are surely classic! I think no one will doubt DDD's skills. But he too did not chose the view camera! Of maybe, the view camera's resolution was too low for him?

    On the other hand, I wonder why Ansel Adams did not use the Leica to take his magnificant landscapes with such breathing beauty that even Stieglitz was impressed!?

    Perhaps there is a lesson somewhere.

    Perhaps even the "greats" needed the RIGHT TOOL?

    Perhaps CB and AA knew that the choice of the camera does count?

    Of perhaps Cartier-Bresson knew something that our knowledgeable colleagues in this forum did not know?

    I know you you are trying to say is use the right tool for the right job. But I think majority of the photographers shooting limit themselves to one format and keep upgrading (within the same format 35mm) without know what tool is for what job!

    IMHO, strike a balance, enjoy shooting with what you have and don't blame the tool first when you don't get the shot.

    The photographer mention in my sig below choose 35mm format for his outdoor landscape and live with it's limitation.

    So 'student', do you still enjoy shooting film compare to digital?

  7. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by student
    But I also wonder why the undoubtable Cartier-Bresson did not take the camera that Ansel Adams used for his great landscapes of the American SouthWest? You know those 8x10 camera with the glass plates that you have to coat on the spot, and have to be carried by a donkey? Of course with his great skills, Cartier-Bression can surely capture all those wonderful "decisive moments" with the view camera! And do it surreptiously without the subject knowing!

    Similarly I have the highest respect for David Douglas Duncan. His war pictures are surely classic! I think no one will doubt DDD's skills. But he too did not chose the view camera! Of maybe, the view camera's resolution was too low for him?

    On the other hand, I wonder why Ansel Adams did not use the Leica to take his magnificant landscapes with such breathing beauty that even Stieglitz was impressed!?

    Perhaps there is a lesson somewhere.

    Perhaps even the "greats" needed the RIGHT TOOL?

    Perhaps CB and AA knew that the choice of the camera does count?

    Of perhaps Cartier-Bresson knew something that our knowledgeable colleagues in this forum did not know?
    how is this even remotely relevant to the main issue of "gear lust" mentioned in the two articles of the original post?
    Last edited by zaren; 5th December 2004 at 02:48 AM.
    you can buy better gear but you can't buy a better eye

  8. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowcrash
    I know you you are trying to say is use the right tool for the right job. But I think majority of the photographers shooting limit themselves to one format and keep upgrading (within the same format 35mm) without know what tool is for what job!


    So 'student', do you still enjoy shooting film compare to digital?
    Thank you.

    I am in 100% agreement that mindless upgrading for newer lenses, better coatings etc are in itself fruitless. It is the title of this thread that is misleading, not the content of what all you nice people are trying to say. I have given examples afte rexamples that are in agreement with you that good photographs can be made with any camera/format - PROVIDED ONE WORKS WITHIN THE LIMITATIONS OF WHAT THE CAMERA/LENS/EQUIPMENT IS MADE FOR.

    IN THIS CONTEXT, HOW CAN ONE EVEN REMOTELY AGREE WITH THE TERM/TITLE THAT THE CAMERA/EQUIPMENT DOES NOT MATTER? IT IS SO ADSURB THATTO AGREE WITH IT MUST SURELY RAISE THE QUESTION OF THE LOGICAL THINKING OF THOE WHO AGREE - AND I MEAN THE TITLE AS IT STAND.

    And yes, I still shoot film -100%.

    1 I love the craft of photography. It had been mentioned (even before digital photography came in - talking about increasing sophistication of equipment) that with "better" equipment making for easier photo talking, the quality of photographs tend to gravitate towards mediocrity. With exceptions, I agree with this sentiment.

    2 I love black & white photography. I still find that the best of even ink printing lack the brilliance of silver. A good friend of mind has recently started to use Epson ink to make his photographs (having been one of the foremost platinum printer in the world), and is selling these at a fraction of the cost of platinum prints.But the quality of the images is a long way off platinum praints, even though they are "quite good".

  9. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by zaren
    how is this even remotely relevant to the main issue of "gear lust" mentioned in the two articles of the original post?
    See above.

    I for one, is amazed at the great lust as mentioned in the two articles. Just see the buy and sell section. Just look at the excitement generated everytime a new digital model comes up! And when one have hardly learn how to see properly!

    I have nothing against the issue of "gear lust" as memtioned. I am in full agreement against mindless "upgrading". I thin this is stupid.

    It is the ridiculous title of this thread that irks me: "Why you camera does not matter". Really!

    People should more thought into titles.

  10. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by student
    It is the ridiculous title of this thread that irks me: "Why you camera does not matter". Really!

    People should more thought into titles.

    you have a typo.

    the title is "Why Your Camera Does Not Matter" and in caps.

    if you want to be a Prof of English, your grammar must be tip top and zero error.

    as you see from my lack of proper punctuation, I'm merely bochup user of English. and hence must be flagellated before your royal highness for me (sic) careless choice of post title.

    i shall really have titled it as "why your camera does not matter, generally speaking, from the socioeconomic vantage point of endless (figuratively speaking, as all will end on judgement day [or equivalent, depending on religious beliefs], or scientifically speaking when the sun of our solar system has supernovaed) equipment upgrades, or the brand loyalty point of view of brand X is better than brand Y, but excluding the basic tenet that your equipment is adequate for the task at hand, with the exception that you are a miracle photographer who loves a challenge and goes into a gunfight armed with only a soup spoon(under conditions that this is figuratively speaking and not an aspersion on photographers being belligerent and seeking fights or being without their camera and only carrying a soup spoon at critical times), and referring to the general terms and conditions that nothing represented in this title shall be taken as representative of the viewpoint of clubsnap or its employees and be upheld in a court of law as a legal opinion or representation."

    however, it seems to have spilled over the title field...

    so I was going to use the title "Penis Envy", but was considering the female viewers of this forum.

  11. #71

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    the most matter of the camera is the handling feel that u get when using it.

  12. #72
    Senior Member sammy888's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eudoofus
    you have a typo.

    the title is "Why Your Camera Does Not Matter" and in caps.

    if you want to be a Prof of English, your grammar must be tip top and zero error.

    as you see from my lack of proper punctuation, I'm merely bochup user of English. and hence must be flagellated before your royal highness for me (sic) careless choice of post title.

    i shall really have titled it as "why your camera does not matter, generally speaking, from the socioeconomic vantage point of endless (figuratively speaking, as all will end on judgement day [or equivalent, depending on religious beliefs], or scientifically speaking when the sun of our solar system has supernovaed) equipment upgrades, or the brand loyalty point of view of brand X is better than brand Y, but excluding the basic tenet that your equipment is adequate for the task at hand, with the exception that you are a miracle photographer who loves a challenge and goes into a gunfight armed with only a soup spoon(under conditions that this is figuratively speaking and not an aspersion on photographers being belligerent and seeking fights or being without their camera and only carrying a soup spoon at critical times), and referring to the general terms and conditions that nothing represented in this title shall be taken as representative of the viewpoint of clubsnap or its employees and be upheld in a court of law as a legal opinion or representation."

    however, it seems to have spilled over the title field...

    so I was going to use the title "Penis Envy", but was considering the female viewers of this forum.



    You crack me up with that one..... I have actually gave up entertaining the dude rationale. But that is a good comeback...

  13. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by eudoofus
    you have a typo.

    the title is "Why Your Camera Does Not Matter" and in caps.

    if you want to be a Prof of English, your grammar must be tip top and zero error.

    as you see from my lack of proper punctuation, I'm merely bochup user of English. and hence must be flagellated before your royal highness for me (sic) careless choice of post title.

    i shall really have titled it as "why your camera does not matter, generally speaking, from the socioeconomic vantage point of endless (figuratively speaking, as all will end on judgement day [or equivalent, depending on religious beliefs], or scientifically speaking when the sun of our solar system has supernovaed) equipment upgrades, or the brand loyalty point of view of brand X is better than brand Y, but excluding the basic tenet that your equipment is adequate for the task at hand, with the exception that you are a miracle photographer who loves a challenge and goes into a gunfight armed with only a soup spoon(under conditions that this is figuratively speaking and not an aspersion on photographers being belligerent and seeking fights or being without their camera and only carrying a soup spoon at critical times), and referring to the general terms and conditions that nothing represented in this title shall be taken as representative of the viewpoint of clubsnap or its employees and be upheld in a court of law as a legal opinion or representation."

    however, it seems to have spilled over the title field...

    so I was going to use the title "Penis Envy", but was considering the female viewers of this forum.
    hahaha... finally some1 showed him theres more than 1 english teacher in clubsnap...
    web | blog | fb | ig

  14. #74

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    Well, this is amazing! Never did I in my wildest dreams fantasise I was an English teacher! Claim to be an English Teacher!? Come on! You may need your brains checked to even entertain the thought! I can recommend some good shrinks if you so desire.

    I have no time and little tolerance for frivolity. I present arguments on issues. I do not debate on English. If anyone has points to give, give them. One does not persuade by side-tracking. I have seen that again and again in this forum. That should belong to politician. I thought we are photographers trying to understanding on the how and why of our own photography! Perhaps I was wrong. Perhaps I have been addressing the wrong audience.

    Entertain me!? My god! You give yourself too much credit!

    But I do apologise for bad English. Actually more for bad proof-reading. After all, I had scientific articles published in reputed international journals both in US and Britain! As well as in published books! But bad proof-reading is no excuse anyway.

    So again, my apologies for bad English as written.

    BUT I STAND BY MY STRONGEST CRITICISM OF THE MISLEADING TITLE OF THIS THREAD. WE ALL KNOW WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT.

    We know that (again!) good pictures can be taken with any camera.

    We know that (again) that the camera does matter. There is a right tool for the right job. Cartier-Bresson may not be what he was without Leitz and the "miniature" camera. He may still be a great photographer, but I doubt very much that the book "Dcisive Moment" will exist.

    We know that changing from 10D to 20D, or 1Ds to !Ds MkII, well - will it produce better pictures? Penis envy? I see a lot of that here! Thankfully mine does the job well enough!

  15. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by eudoofus
    you have a typo.

    the title is "Why Your Camera Does Not Matter" and in caps.

    if you want to be a Prof of English, your grammar must be tip top and zero error.

    as you see from my lack of proper punctuation, I'm merely bochup user of English. and hence must be flagellated before your royal highness for me (sic) careless choice of post title.

    i shall really have titled it as "why your camera does not matter, generally speaking, from the socioeconomic vantage point of endless (figuratively speaking, as all will end on judgement day [or equivalent, depending on religious beliefs], or scientifically speaking when the sun of our solar system has supernovaed) equipment upgrades, or the brand loyalty point of view of brand X is better than brand Y, but excluding the basic tenet that your equipment is adequate for the task at hand, with the exception that you are a miracle photographer who loves a challenge and goes into a gunfight armed with only a soup spoon(under conditions that this is figuratively speaking and not an aspersion on photographers being belligerent and seeking fights or being without their camera and only carrying a soup spoon at critical times), and referring to the general terms and conditions that nothing represented in this title shall be taken as representative of the viewpoint of clubsnap or its employees and be upheld in a court of law as a legal opinion or representation."

    however, it seems to have spilled over the title field...

    so I was going to use the title "Penis Envy", but was considering the female viewers of this forum.
    On the issue of English. Perhaps I might suggest a simpler title than the one you gave here.

    How about "MINDLESS UPGRADING OF EQUIPMENT DO NOT NECESSARILY PRODUCE BETTER IMAGES".

    Even the courts have decided that simple prose can often make for clearer meaning.

  16. #76
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    Default Why your equipment does matter

    Ok, it's Sunday night and I'm bored, so i thought i would inject a little humor in this thread.

    Why your equipment does matter
    by ckuang

    People know cars don't drive themselves..not yet anyway, typewriters don't write novels...not yet anyway, so why do people think cameras drive around and make pictures all by themselves? Always blame a camera for not knowing anything or making a wrong exposure of fuzzy images.

    Here's how I came to discover this

    When you've been an amateur photographer for all of 1 month 3 days and 22 minutes, you quickly come to learn some important truths about your gear

    you quickly learn that your canon eos 1 is not suited for underwater photography despites Ken Rockwell's claim that equipment does not matter. You also learn that even if you did set the right exposure or focused the eos 1 underwater, well, the images don't quite come out right.

    you quickly learn that your 8x10 field camera is not the ideal camera for shooting basketball. And the sports editor at the local paper doesn't give a crap's a*se about Ken Rockwell when your sports photo for tomorrow's paper is three hours late and you still have 300 more pieces of 8x10" negs to develop and edit.

    you quickly learn that a leica M6 with a 21mm lens isn't exactly the best setup to photograph the rings of saturn and that despite 6 hours of neogtiations with the PR department, NASA isn't about to give you a ride on their shuttle to get a closer shot just and they don't really give a crap's a*se about Ken Rockwell or his opinion on photography either.

    you quickly learn that a disposable camera isn't exactly the best way to convince a Victoria Secret's model that you're a professional photographer and need a fashon shoot done in your very own bedroom. And her agent thinks you should take Ken Rockwell's opinion on photography and stuff it up your own a*se.

    Sigh, so after all these trials and tribulations I have been through over the last 1 month 3 days and 26 minutes, i have come to the opinion that equipment does matter.....alot. So go out and get the best equipment you can possibly afford. Because when the local paper, NASA and Elite Models are all pissed off at you at the same time, even if you don't have great pictures, at least you still have a great setup.

  17. #77
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    Hi all, seriously I wonder why some of you like to argue over such a topic. Why not just create images from your camera as you like to see? It is so important of how the others will look at you on what you do?

    Anyway, without reading the links provided by the thread starter, my own opinion is that you got to be more resourceful on how to create a picture you want to see, whether by getting better equipment, taking multiple frames at once, change of location etc.

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by ckuang
    Ok, it's Sunday night and I'm bored, so i thought i would inject a little humor in this thread.

    Why your equipment does matter
    by ckuang
    *snip*
    Good one!

    Sometimes ken rockwell posts these articles to garner attention at dpreview, photo.net and other places. He just loves these controversial articles. So anyone reading it should do so in good humour too. Its not cannon.

  19. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zplus
    Good one!

    Sometimes ken rockwell posts these articles to garner attention at dpreview, photo.net and other places. He just loves these controversial articles. So anyone reading it should do so in good humour too. Its not cannon.
    love him, hate him, revere him, revile him....

    ken rockwell doesn't matter....

    he doesnt take photographs for any of us.
    you can buy better gear but you can't buy a better eye

  20. #80

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    ken rockwell review is all his biased opinion one la. nobody in the right mind will believe him 100%

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