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Thread: Why Your Camera Does Not Matter

  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by student
    And no great photographer can take a full face picture of a lion with a disposable camera while in the safari in the wild!! Not even Ken Rockwell! Period! End of argument!!!
    sorry....have to disagree with you. the photographer can do the following to get the shot;

    1. drive his jeep very close to the lion, then bait or provoke it to charge at the jeep. take the shot with the disposable cam once the lion is close enough. of course make sure the jeep is adequately protected by iron bars, like a shark cage.

    2. go lion hunting with the a local african hunter who uses a spear only. bring the disposable camera along. once the lion discovers you he will charge at you. snap him closeup just as the hunter's spear pierces its heart. (need to be brave for this one)

    3. set up the disposable camera on the ground so that the shutter can be activated by a long stick held by you from the branches of a tree above the camera. use a bait, such as a dead goat, to attract the lion close to the camera. take the shot once it is close enough.

    these are only three examples, i'm sure photographers can use their resourcefulness to come up with many more.

    you can buy better gear but you can't buy a better eye

  2. #22
    Senior Member sammy888's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by student
    What a bunch of "c..p", "t...h", and "b.....t"!

    Of course the equipment does matter!

    Ask Summi to drive a hyundai excel and see if he could win the F1 - competing with the best out there - not with Boris! Boring! Notwithstanding Shummi's unequalled driving skills!

    Ask a top eye surgeon to use an axe to see he could do a Lasix surgery for those of you crazy enough to want Lasix!

    Bring a disposable camera and see if you could take a full frame shot of the lion in Kenya.

    Don't be daft!! Of course the equipment does matter. The RIGHT EQUIPMENT FOR THE RIGHT JOB! of course you need the skills to use that piece of equipment. But no Shummi can win a F1 (remember - not against Boris - but against the best!) with a 20 BHP car! No eye surgeon can do fine surgery with an axe. And no great photographer can take a full face picture of a lion with a disposable camera while in the safari in the wild!! Not even Ken Rockwell! Period! End of argument!!!

    What is being referred to is that "good pictures" can be taken with ANY CAMERA, within the limits of what that camera is designed for. If you use a rangefinder, don't aspire to take great macro shots. Take streets. If you use an axe, don't aspire to do fine surgery. Use the axe to uild a log cabin. If you drive an excel, don't expect to win F1. Aspire to bring your family for a nice weekend outing!

    The equipment does matter. A LOT! Don't kid yourself that equipment does not matter. Don't give yourself the illusion! The right equipment for the right job! But if you have an el-cheapo "tanahmui/mutalingam/etcetc" camera, don't fret! Find out what that piece of equipment is made for, and then go out and make some good images with it!!

    Brudder Brudder...take it easy and read between the lines leh...I think you lost the plot to the story here.... We are all in agreement that there will be those time the right equipment for the right job. I believe I cover that earlier.

    It is about "OVERKILL". It is about using a pile driver just to knock a small 1 inch nail to a wood. Sorry if I mislead you ...I might have wrote it too hastily with out further consideration. The racing analogy or example was to explain something else from a difference perspective. It is to explain that if you dont have the skills then giving you the best car to drive will make no difference to you when place on a track with another car driven by a person who has the skill to out pace you in a lesser powered car. In a racing track by the way..speed is not everything when there are alot of corners and turns. You need to know your car and road well to drive it to the limit. That is a fact.

    Sure in time you will learn to drive it better but the example is about that moment in time. That is the essence of my example. Put it another way, I put you and shummi each in a Hyundai..who do you think will drive better? You? heheh....BUt of course that would not be fair. You are not a Pro...he is. ANd as a Pro he does need the best to fight with the best. He does not need that if he competes with you. The story here is..if you are an amatuer Sunday photographer...does it make sense to think you need all that fancy equipment to justify that without these equipment you can never take good pictures.

    That is the question here. Not easy to answer too I guess but well this is just chatter here because at the end of the day...if you think you can buy the lens and want to...there is no one to stop you. Like some mentioned here it might be envy lah....or I could also say..boastful....sometime it is thin line and from what I see so far all these years and one reason why I shoot alone and never join groups...it is sometime NEVER about the photo taking experience together but more..a gathering of people to pull their shorts down and see..."whoes bigger". Not trying to offend but just my two cents.

    I do think about this alot each time I want to invest in a new toy. I alway make it a habit like in photography to alway telling myself if I want that lens or body will I keep it for at least 3-5 yrs and use it often..if I cant see a reason for doing so..I usually forget about it. I might get a 70-300mm f4(which I have) then to get a 70-200VR even if I could more the afford it. I almost did...it took alot of will power that day(and a few other days too) to walk out of CP without it. And now that I col down and the excitment had died down...I am pretty happy with my 70-300mm...as I felt that new lens will make me happy for a while but what it can do ..my 70-300mm can too for the TYPE of shooting I do. Yes there are alot of advantages for that VR lens but I doubt I will use it much. Unless my shooting interest changes dramatically.
    Last edited by sammy888; 1st December 2004 at 06:23 PM.

  3. #23
    Senior Member sammy888's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zaren
    sorry....have to disagree with you. the photographer can do the following to get the shot;

    1. drive his jeep very close to the lion, then bait or provoke it to charge at the jeep. take the shot with the disposable cam once the lion is close enough. of course make sure the jeep is adequately protected by iron bars, like a shark cage.

    2. go lion hunting with the a local african hunter who uses a spear only. bring the disposable camera along. once the lion discovers you he will charge at you. snap him closeup just as the hunter's spear pierces its heart. (need to be brave for this one)

    3. set up the disposable camera on the ground so that the shutter can be activated by a long stick held by you from the branches of a tree above the camera. use a bait, such as a dead goat, to attract the lion close to the camera. take the shot once it is close enough.

    these are only three examples, i'm sure photographers can use their resourcefulness to come up with many more.


    Damn!! I sense you too watch Animal Planet like me! heheh....your ideas are sound by the way. You know Animal Planet and National Geo are the two that motivates me...recently they have some shows on Nat Geo photographer in various fields of interest. Awesome and te camera they use are not always the biggers (might not even be nikon or canon heheh) and definitely not the latest but ....wow.

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by sammy888

    It is about "OVERKILL".

    Put it another way, I put you and shummi each in a Hyundai..who do you think will drive better? You? heheh....
    Of course it is about overkill! Why the title in this thread? A title like is meant to titilate and provoke. Such statements have no meaning at all except to give a sense of "wisdom" - a pseudo-one at that.

    Regarding racing. Shummi's driving skill is in my opinion, unequalled! But let me put it in another way.

    Put me in a Porsche twin turbo and shummi in a hyundai excel. I will race him down in a one kilometer straight stretch. I will even give him a 5 second lead ( given the fact that he is such a great driver - that is generous!)

    Now let us see who wins that race!?

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by zaren
    sorry....have to disagree with you. the photographer can do the following to get the shot;

    1. drive his jeep very close to the lion, then bait or provoke it to charge at the jeep. take the shot with the disposable cam once the lion is close enough. of course make sure the jeep is adequately protected by iron bars, like a shark cage.

    2. go lion hunting with the a local african hunter who uses a spear only. bring the disposable camera along. once the lion discovers you he will charge at you. snap him closeup just as the hunter's spear pierces its heart. (need to be brave for this one)

    3. set up the disposable camera on the ground so that the shutter can be activated by a long stick held by you from the branches of a tree above the camera. use a bait, such as a dead goat, to attract the lion close to the camera. take the shot once it is close enough.

    these are only three examples, i'm sure photographers can use their resourcefulness to come up with many more.

    Ah, but you are now using more expensive equipments such as a protected vehicle, somebody who might enjoy taking your place in the lion's mouth, and hoping the branch will hold up!

    I think cheaper to get a long lens! A better equipment!

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by student
    Of course it is about overkill! Why the title in this thread? A title like is meant to titilate and provoke. Such statements have no meaning at all except to give a sense of "wisdom" - a pseudo-one at that.

    Regarding racing. Shummi's driving skill is in my opinion, unequalled! But let me put it in another way.

    Put me in a Porsche twin turbo and shummi in a hyundai excel. I will race him down in a one kilometer straight stretch. I will even give him a 5 second lead ( given the fact that he is such a great driver - that is generous!)

    Now let us see who wins that race!?
    photography is more about the creative process...

    so, a better example would be..

    we give you a set of the best paint brushes, paint, easel, studio in the whole world, and give picasso the most basic equipment.

    now let us see who produces the better painting?
    you can buy better gear but you can't buy a better eye

  7. #27
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    The saying go well with this thread will be "It is not song but the singer" So song can be good but it the singer that bring out the "good" in that song. My $0.02

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by zaren
    photography is more about the creative process...

    so, a better example would be..

    we give you a set of the best paint brushes, paint, easel, studio in the whole world, and give picasso the most basic equipment.

    now let us see who produces the better painting?
    How about you give picasso primary school childrens' mickey mouse colour pencil and ask him to paint the sistine chapel?

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by shutterspeed
    How about you give picasso primary school childrens' mickey mouse colour pencil and ask him to paint the sistine chapel?
    Thanks.

    Ya, would love to see Picasso do that! I have to exercise great restraint to such ridiculous examples. Picasso can draw a picture with a charcoal better than I can with the best brushes. But he will have a heck of a time doing the wonderful psychedelic images with the charcoal!

    The silly thing about this kind of talk is an illusion of pseudo-intelligence and pseudo-wisdom.

    Read again - YOU CAN MAKE GOOD PICTURES WITH ANY CAMERA, PROVIDED YOU WORK WITHIN THE CONSTRAINTS OF WHAT THAT CAMERA IS MADE FOR! PERIOD!!!!!

    It is pure stupidity to say that equipment does not matter. Examples are given in thread to "illustrate" that it does not matter. Yet there can be more examples to illustrate that it does.

    You CANNOT take a 1:1 macro shots with your average 50 mm lens. Want to try.

    You CANNOT take an architectural shot of a 20 storey building without it falling backwards with your average 50mm lens when standing on the ground. Want to try it

    You CANNOT take a face shot of the tigers in the Singapore Zoo without risking being mauled by trying to get close enough to smell the tigers halitosis.

    Need I give more examples?

    But you CAN make wonderful images with that great 50mm lens. A grandmaster who use practically ONE lens is Ralph Gibson whom I have the pleasure of meeting. On his Leica M. Yet for his latest work on the guitars, he had to use a SLR with a macro lens.

    I really hope this thread is all for a laugh, which is fine with me. But if taken seriously................

  10. #30

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    wah lau eh.... here we go again...
    the student is teaching english again....
    web | blog | fb | ig

  11. #31

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    i disagree. Gaffaring your camera equipment will make you a better photographer.


    Quote Originally Posted by eudoofus
    http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/notcamera.htm

    http://www.thelightandtheland.com/pa.../thoughts.html

    anyone else agrees?

    sick of brand X is for pros, brand Y is for amateur etc talk.

  12. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by shutterspeed
    How about you give picasso primary school childrens' mickey mouse colour pencil and ask him to paint the sistine chapel?
    can....he'll just take a *long* time.....

    you can buy better gear but you can't buy a better eye

  13. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by student
    Thanks.

    Ya, would love to see Picasso do that! I have to exercise great restraint to such ridiculous examples. Picasso can draw a picture with a charcoal better than I can with the best brushes. But he will have a heck of a time doing the wonderful psychedelic images with the charcoal!

    The silly thing about this kind of talk is an illusion of pseudo-intelligence and pseudo-wisdom.

    Read again - YOU CAN MAKE GOOD PICTURES WITH ANY CAMERA, PROVIDED YOU WORK WITHIN THE CONSTRAINTS OF WHAT THAT CAMERA IS MADE FOR! PERIOD!!!!!

    It is pure stupidity to say that equipment does not matter. Examples are given in thread to "illustrate" that it does not matter. Yet there can be more examples to illustrate that it does.

    You CANNOT take a 1:1 macro shots with your average 50 mm lens. Want to try.

    You CANNOT take an architectural shot of a 20 storey building without it falling backwards with your average 50mm lens when standing on the ground. Want to try it

    You CANNOT take a face shot of the tigers in the Singapore Zoo without risking being mauled by trying to get close enough to smell the tigers halitosis.

    Need I give more examples?

    But you CAN make wonderful images with that great 50mm lens. A grandmaster who use practically ONE lens is Ralph Gibson whom I have the pleasure of meeting. On his Leica M. Yet for his latest work on the guitars, he had to use a SLR with a macro lens.

    I really hope this thread is all for a laugh, which is fine with me. But if taken seriously................
    taken to it's logical conclusion, yes, you CANNOT take a photo without a camera. you CANNOT drive without a car. you CANNOT accomplish any task without the right tools.

    you are missing the most important point in the original thread, which is; worrying needlessly about getting better equipment won't necessarily make you a better photographer.

    it's good that you should mention F1 racing as an example. At F1 level, the better car can really be more important than the better driver, as the skills of the top drivers are very similar. winning or losing can hinge on a fraction of a second. all it takes is for your F1 racing car to be tuned slightly better than your competitors and it will make a difference of a split second per lap, and will decide the outcome of the race.

    not so in photography. a better or more expensive camera or sharper lens often does not automatically translate to better photographs. skill cannot be "bought", but can only be attained through practice.

    want more sporting examples? the list is endless...
    give tiger woods a cheapo $50 golf set and he will outplay you on the golf course with your $5000 latest whiz-bang golf equipment. give roger federer a cheapo wooden tennis racket and he will still whup your ass on the tennis court, even though you are playing with the latest $1000 whiz-bang tennis racket.

    ultimately, it's the skill that matters most. or the "eye", or the vision. take your pick. tools are just tools.

    but hey, all this is in good fun. nobody takes any of this seriously.

    Last edited by zaren; 2nd December 2004 at 01:41 AM.
    you can buy better gear but you can't buy a better eye

  14. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by sammy888
    Damn!! I sense you too watch Animal Planet like me! heheh....your ideas are sound by the way. You know Animal Planet and National Geo are the two that motivates me...recently they have some shows on Nat Geo photographer in various fields of interest. Awesome and te camera they use are not always the biggers (might not even be nikon or canon heheh) and definitely not the latest but ....wow.
    actually i watch nat geo more than animal planet. yep.... their "through the lens" series is great!
    you can buy better gear but you can't buy a better eye

  15. #35
    Senior Member afbug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zaren
    sorry....have to disagree with you. the photographer can do the following to get the shot;

    1. drive his jeep very close to the lion, then bait or provoke it to charge at the jeep. take the shot with the disposable cam once the lion is close enough. of course make sure the jeep is adequately protected by iron bars, like a shark cage.

    2. go lion hunting with the a local african hunter who uses a spear only. bring the disposable camera along. once the lion discovers you he will charge at you. snap him closeup just as the hunter's spear pierces its heart. (need to be brave for this one)

    3. set up the disposable camera on the ground so that the shutter can be activated by a long stick held by you from the branches of a tree above the camera. use a bait, such as a dead goat, to attract the lion close to the camera. take the shot once it is close enough.

    these are only three examples, i'm sure photographers can use their resourcefulness to come up with many more.

    Did you watch Mad Mike and Mark's Africa's top 5 on Animal Planet? They got a wild cheetah sitting right next to them on top of their jeep. This show is bout taking close-ups of Africa's top 5 animals.

  16. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by afbug
    Did you watch Mad Mike and Mark's Africa's top 5 on Animal Planet? They got a wild cheetah sitting right next to them on top of their jeep. This show is bout taking close-ups of Africa's top 5 animals.
    yep, that would be a great time to whip out that disposable camera to take a full face shot of the wild cheetah.

    you can buy better gear but you can't buy a better eye

  17. #37
    Senior Member afbug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zaren
    yep, that would be a great time to whip out that disposable camera to take a full face shot of the wild cheetah.

    Oh....they dun have a disposable camera. They're using a videocam and a SLR type/size camera. They got more than a full face shot. The cheetah even licked his forehead! If Animal Planet re-runs that episode/show, be sure to watch it. Kind of scary.....got licked by a cheetah

  18. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by afbug
    Oh....they dun have a disposable camera. They're using a videocam and a SLR type/size camera. They got more than a full face shot. The cheetah even licked his forehead! If Animal Planet re-runs that episode/show, be sure to watch it. Kind of scary.....got licked by a cheetah
    thanks....will definitely watch it!
    Last edited by zaren; 2nd December 2004 at 02:03 AM.
    you can buy better gear but you can't buy a better eye

  19. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by afbug
    Did you watch Mad Mike and Mark's Africa's top 5 on Animal Planet? They got a wild cheetah sitting right next to them on top of their jeep. This show is bout taking close-ups of Africa's top 5 animals.
    it's also about understanding your "models" b4 u shoot them

  20. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by EiRiK
    wah lau eh.... here we go again...
    the student is teaching english again....
    hey?

    apa u chakap?

    U call that teaching inglis?

    Wait till u c mi in full teaching mode!!!!

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