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Thread: Buyer ask for full refund after buying from me 3 weeks ago. Opinion needed!

  1. #41

    Default Re: Buyer ask for full refund after buying from me 3 weeks ago. Opinion needed!

    Hi Fellow Clubsnap Members,

    Let’s take a minute and let cooler heads prevail. I did a search back to the advertisement placed by TS and there were 2 related this particular transaction which resulted with the sale to “a nice family” as reported by TS. In both the post to sell these items, the seller did wrote that the condition of the items as 10 and that the warranty Status was 4 months. There were no specific qualification on the status of the warranty meaning that if it will be transferred from the seller to the buyer whereas the buyer need to then make his/her warranty claim against the original seller, meaning Canon in this case. So there was a warranty of 4 months provided at the time of sale. In the absence of qualifications, it is subject to interpretation as to who is providing the warranty or the route of claim against the warranty. Buyer would be quite justified to turn to whoever he had handed his cash to, to initiate this portion of the agreement. We do not know what had actually transpired, thus it is best for us not to make remarks which could borders on slanders against parties we do not even know well.

    It is true that this transaction, like any other transaction in the Buy & Sell thread is carried out on a willing buyer and willing seller basis. So there is no question that this sale was successfully carried out and concluded. However, this sale is also offered with two conditions, namely, condition of goods as defined as complying with the specific definition provided by the thread as condition 10, which is “Very carefully used. Only very light user marks. Without close inspection, item would pass for mint.” and a warranty of 4 months. The warranty period was still in force when the buyer complained to the seller and it still is.

    It is fine for TS to raise this problem he is encountering and seek advice as to what he should do. However, let us restrict our advice to him and what we think he ought to do without passing any remarks on either buyer or seller as we really do not know what really took place other than a successful sale and purchase had taken place on 21 Dec 2011 with conditions attached.

    To the TS, I suggest that you resolve the warranty issue with the buyer, as based on your post in the B&S thread, you did placed a 4 months warranty to the items as a condition of the sale. You should address whatever or however the warranty can be fulfilled with the buyer if this had not already been done. Let us not escalate what, with a little dialogue can be resolved to everybody’s satisfaction.

    Just my 2cents worth.
    Last edited by New2digital; 14th January 2012 at 10:42 AM.

  2. #42
    Senior Member ricleo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Buyer ask for full refund after buying from me 3 weeks ago. Opinion needed!

    if you did read his advertisement properly, you would have seen that his 4 months warranty refers to the 60D. warranty also stated for the 50mm but silent on the 17-85. anyway waiting for the buyer to come in to clarify.

    "Selling my 60D with 17-85 f4-5.6 IS USM lens and 50mm f1.8 lens for $1600. Warranty for 60D ends 24/04/2012while 50mm f1.8 lens ends 14/08/2012. Selling because I got no time for photography. Comes with all the packaging. A good bundle for beginners. Battery charge only 3 times and sc should be less than 10k so the camera is underutilised. Store in drybox when not in use. Do pm me if you are interested and I prefer to sell all in bundle."




    Quote Originally Posted by New2digital View Post
    Hi Fellow Clubsnap Members,

    Let’s take a minute and let cooler heads prevail. I did a search back to the advertisement placed by TS and there were 2 related this particular transaction which resulted with the sale to “a nice family” as reported by TS. In both the post to sell these items, the seller did wrote that the condition of the items as 10 and that the warranty Status was 4 months. There were no specific qualification on the status of the warranty meaning that if it will be transferred from the seller to the buyer whereas the buyer need to then make his/her warranty claim against the original seller, meaning Canon in this case. So there was a warranty of 4 months provided at the time of sale. In the absence of qualifications, it is subject to interpretation as to who is providing the warranty or the route of claim against the warranty. Buyer would be quite justified to turn to whoever he had handed his cash to, to initiate this portion of the agreement. We do not know what had actually transpired, thus it is best for us not to make remarks which could borders on slanders against parties we do not even know well.

    It is true that this transaction, like any other transaction in the Buy & Sell thread is carried out on a willing buyer and willing seller basis. So there is no question that this sale was successfully carried out and concluded. However, this sale is also offered with two conditions, namely, condition of goods as defined as complying with the specific definition provided by the thread as condition 10, which is “Very carefully used. Only very light user marks. Without close inspection, item would pass for mint.” and a warranty of 4 months. The warranty period was still in force when the buyer complained to the seller and it still is.

    It is fine for TS to raise this problem he is encountering and seek advice as to what he should do. However, let us restrict our advice to him and what we think he ought to do without passing any remarks on either buyer or seller as we really do not know what really took place other than a successful sale and purchase had taken place on 21 Dec 2011 with conditions attached.

    To the TS, I suggest that you resolve the warranty issue with the buyer, as based on your post in the B&S thread, you did placed a 4 months warranty to the items as a condition of the sale. You should address whatever or however the warranty can be fulfilled with the buyer if this had not already been done. Let us not escalate what, with a little dialogue can be resolved to everybody’s satisfaction.

    Just my 2cents worth.
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  3. #43
    Moderator ed9119's Avatar
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    Default Re: Buyer ask for full refund after buying from me 3 weeks ago. Opinion needed!

    Tell him sorry no refund.... end of story .... caveat emptor

    HE can always post and re-sell these items he bought .... after all, they belong to HIM now

    let us know if he tries anything funny
    shaddap and just shoot .... up close
    Walkeast

  4. #44
    Moderator Octarine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Buyer ask for full refund after buying from me 3 weeks ago. Opinion needed!

    Quote Originally Posted by New2digital View Post
    Let’s take a minute and let cooler heads prevail. I did a search back to the advertisement placed by TS and there were 2 related this particular transaction which resulted with the sale to “a nice family” as reported by TS. In both the post to sell these items, the seller did wrote that the condition of the items as 10 and that the warranty Status was 4 months. There were no specific qualification on the status of the warranty meaning that if it will be transferred from the seller to the buyer whereas the buyer need to then make his/her warranty claim against the original seller, meaning Canon in this case. So there was a warranty of 4 months provided at the time of sale. In the absence of qualifications, it is subject to interpretation as to who is providing the warranty or the route of claim against the warranty. Buyer would be quite justified to turn to whoever he had handed his cash to, to initiate this portion of the agreement. We do not know what had actually transpired, thus it is best for us not to make remarks which could borders on slanders against parties we do not even know well.
    If you want to put on the lawyer's robe then please do it properly.
    1) Provider of the warranty is the product manufacturer or his appointed service partners only, period. The price of the warranty is paid by the buyer in the shop.
    2) Warranty cannot be transferred to 2nd hand buyer. (Canon's Terms and Conditions of Warranty)
    But we know that Canon honours the warranty if the receipt is shown even in case the person presenting is not the 1st hand buyer.
    This would be perfectly sufficient for the new owner to go to CSC and claim warranty services there - IF there is any warranty. But exactly this condition is not fulfilled.
    To put idea into a different context: if you sell your 2 year old car would you entertain warranty issues (most cars come with 3 years or more) from the new owner?
    Quote Originally Posted by New2digital View Post
    It is true that this transaction, like any other transaction in the Buy & Sell thread is carried out on a willing buyer and willing seller basis. So there is no question that this sale was successfully carried out and concluded. However, this sale is also offered with two conditions, namely, condition of goods as defined as complying with the specific definition provided by the thread as condition 10, which is “Very carefully used. Only very light user marks. Without close inspection, item would pass for mint.” and a warranty of 4 months. The warranty period was still in force when the buyer complained to the seller and it still is.
    Which still does not mean or include: for the next 12 months the lens will work flawlessly and not suffer any technical issues. Exactly this is what the buyer is trying to imply here: because he got something with a 10 rating he assumes that there would not be any issue within the next short term of time. But this is assumption is wrong in the first place. There are people here offering 2nd hand articles with a personal 7 days warranty, true. But this is their own personal decision and discretion. No seller is obliged to offer this.

    Quote Originally Posted by New2digital View Post
    To the TS, I suggest that you resolve the warranty issue with the buyer, as based on your post in the B&S thread, you did placed a 4 months warranty to the items as a condition of the sale. You should address whatever or however the warranty can be fulfilled with the buyer if this had not already been done. Let us not escalate what, with a little dialogue can be resolved to everybody’s satisfaction.
    Wrong. Please see above. TS has never offered any personal warranty services. There is nothing to negotiate with dialog blabla, the points are clear and the buyer has to learn a lesson here.
    The only point that the buyer could possibly have is that the issue with the lens has already been existing. But since the buyer had his fair chance of testing the goods before handing over the money there are no further points of discussion.

    On a side note: the ribbon cable is worth $10 at the most. CSC would fix it, other repair shops would fix it as well. The real damage and the wahoo that the buyer creates (wanting to return all equipment and getting the money back) is in no reasonable relation.
    Which restaurant would entertain us if we came back after 3 days, claiming we didn't feel well actually after eating the food there...?
    Last edited by Octarine; 14th January 2012 at 12:04 PM.
    EOS

  5. #45
    Member Valkarian's Avatar
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    Default

    Wow. Ok first of all I agree that this is too fishy and that you should not refund him right now. Next, I really want this cs buyer to come forward and please express your side of the story. We really need to know both sides of the same story so that we can help settle this!

    I can understand if buyer might have thought that 4 months warranty was for everything, but then that would be a mistake on his part for not clarifying.

    Ts, as long as you know you've done nothing wrong, your conscience is clear. Do not feel guilty. Yet.
    Canon 600D / EF 70-200 f2.8 L USM / EF 50 f1.8 II

  6. #46

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    Guys the 17-85 mm lens got no warranty as I bought it 2nd hand few months ago. While the 60D and 50mm lens there's receipt and warranties. I gave all the relevant receipt to him, I even told him that the 17-85mm lens got no warranty. The 17-85mm lens is still in good condition with minimal user marks when I sold it to the buyer.


    "Frankly under that dim light only tested auto. We also try cleaning the contact when we first enconter the error 1. (we still believe may be is dirty). Later we read more that this is the common issue for this lens. Exactly it wouldn't show I'm auto mode. Only when manual below f4, as described by many people. I believe u sell many no problem and may be u genuinely only shoot auto mode and u don't realized this problem. Now what is the best way to resolve this. I would to hear from u"


    This is what he sms me last night.
    Last edited by arilhasan; 14th January 2012 at 12:07 PM.

  7. #47
    Moderator Octarine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Buyer ask for full refund after buying from me 3 weeks ago. Opinion needed!

    Quote Originally Posted by arilhasan View Post
    Guys the 17-85 mm lens got no warranty as I bought it 2nd hand few months ago. While the 60D and 50mm lens there's receipt and warranties. I gave all the relevant receipt to him, I even told him that the 17-85mm lens got no warranty. The 17-85mm lens is still in good condition with minimal user marks when I sold it to the buyer.
    That is perfectly fine from my point of you. There is no need to entertain any funny claims. Please inform the buyer about this thread and ask him to put his side of the story down here.
    EOS

  8. #48

    Default Re: Buyer ask for full refund after buying from me 3 weeks ago. Opinion needed!

    Quote Originally Posted by arilhasan View Post
    "Frankly under that dim light only tested auto. We also try cleaning the contact when we first enconter the error 1. (we still believe may be is dirty). Later we read more that this is the common issue for this lens. Exactly it wouldn't show I'm auto mode. Only when manual below f4, as described by many people. I believe u sell many no problem and may be u genuinely only shoot auto mode and u don't realized this problem. Now what is the best way to resolve this. I would to hear from u"


    This is what he sms me last night.
    Then tell him "If you only tested in Auto, then you did not test properly. Furthermore, under dim light, the Auto function will open the aperture. It worked fine when I sold it to you, it worked fine when you tested it. 3 weeks have passed already. If it is a real manufacturing fault, bring it to Canon for servicing. FYI the ribbon cable costs about 10 bucks. I do not see why you want to keep the 50mm but want to return the body and other lens after 3 weeks of use, where your own usage may have caused breakage. The deal is done, it has been 3 weeks. Any issues with lenses please bring to CSC.".
    Alpha

  9. #49
    Member pasay's Avatar
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    Default Re: Buyer ask for full refund after buying from me 3 weeks ago. Opinion needed!

    Quote Originally Posted by arilhasan View Post
    Guys the 17-85 mm lens got no warranty as I bought it 2nd hand few months ago. While the 60D and 50mm lens there's receipt and warranties. I gave all the relevant receipt to him, I even told him that the 17-85mm lens got no warranty. The 17-85mm lens is still in good condition with minimal user marks when I sold it to the buyer.


    "Frankly under that dim light only tested auto. We also try cleaning the contact when we first enconter the error 1. (we still believe may be is dirty). Later we read more that this is the common issue for this lens. Exactly it wouldn't show I'm auto mode. Only when manual below f4, as described by many people. I believe u sell many no problem and may be u genuinely only shoot auto mode and u don't realized this problem. Now what is the best way to resolve this. I would to hear from u"


    This is what he sms me last night.
    which means when you bought it from your friend up to the point of sale, you also didn't know about the issue, so i would say your conscience should be clear. whether you want to help the buyer resolve this issue is a matter of personal choice on your part, but you are not obligated to do so.

    another thing to note, since this issue is "common", means that canon should be aware of it and would honor the repairs (within 4 months warranty). just tell him to get it fixed at CSC since it's still under warranty and is a known issue (manufacturer defect). no need to return and refund.
    a Nikon body, some lenses, a flash, and a whole lot of dusty photos

  10. #50

    Default Re: Buyer ask for full refund after buying from me 3 weeks ago. Opinion needed!

    if it is a known fault and common issue, CSC should repair it FOC, with or without warranty.
    you can buy better gear but you can't buy a better eye

  11. #51

    Default Re: Buyer ask for full refund after buying from me 3 weeks ago. Opinion needed!

    Quote Originally Posted by ricleo View Post
    if you did read his advertisement properly, you would have seen that his 4 months warranty refers to the 60D. warranty also stated for the 50mm but silent on the 17-85. anyway waiting for the buyer to come in to clarify.

    "Selling my 60D with 17-85 f4-5.6 IS USM lens and 50mm f1.8 lens for $1600. Warranty for 60D ends 24/04/2012while 50mm f1.8 lens ends 14/08/2012. Selling because I got no time for photography. Comes with all the packaging. A good bundle for beginners. Battery charge only 3 times and sc should be less than 10k so the camera is underutilised. Store in drybox when not in use. Do pm me if you are interested and I prefer to sell all in bundle."
    This only qualify the Camera and the 50mm lens but silent on the zoom lens, whereas the general statement is 4 months. Like I said earlier, it is subject to interpretations, by qualifying specific dates for 2 within the general statement do not necessary means that the 3rd is not covered by this general statement, unless he also specifically said that the general statement of 4 months is not applicable to the 3rd item. My reading is, since the warranty for both the camera and the 50mm lens are actually more than 4 months(he sold the entire set on 21 Dec 2011, 24 Apr 2012 is more than 4 months), the statement can be read as these two items have warranty of more than the general warranty statement, while the 3rd is just as specified in the general warranty statement of 4 months. Anyway, this is not my point in my note but for us not to engage in making statements in writing which we could end up regretting. Life is too short to generate more heat than necessary. This is a club about snapping photos, let us just enjoy the joy of photography and help each other to enjoy where we can. Let's spend more time on the positive side of things than the negative.

    There is certainly an issue between this buyer and seller, so let them try to reach an amicable solution without us throwing in any spanners, we should if we must, encourage them to come to a compromise. Let face it, I too, do not know what actually transpired, I can only see what is written and from what I see, there is room for interpretations and surely each side will interpret it to their advantage.

    I will stop at this with thanks. Have a good weekend, shooting more pictures where possible.

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