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Thread: question abt the 4/3 system

  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by chancy
    Hello Kah Heng & Uginz,

    Thanks Uginz for locating the Olympus link, appreciated :-)
    welcome, still learning everything i can abt the system before i commit to buying the E300.

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by uginz
    welcome, still learning everything i can abt the system before i commit to buying the E300.
    That's called paralysis through analysis

  3. #23

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    Hi Kah Heng and other experts

    On the 4/3 site, it says
    Brighter lenses by approx. two f-stops with same depth of field as 35mm lenses (plus solutions to provide shallow depth of field if required)

    Does this mean that given the same dof, 4/3 lens are 2 fstop brighter. Sorry, I don't seem to get it, eg, how the focal length and fstop are related here.

    Thanks in advance
    Serene

  4. #24
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    Hello Kah Heng,

    Thanks for your clarifications on the technical implementation of the 4/3 system.

    As a follow up comment, I wonder that by wrapping the image circle as close to the imager as possible yet retain a 35mm-like diameter lens mount (that is much larger than the image circle) when Oly could have used a narrower mount for a compact camera body; that the goal of Oly is to grab as much of the central more incident rays to maximise sensor performance and trade off some compactness.

  5. #25
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    Hello Serene,

    Lets take Olympus 50mm Macro Digital Zuiko (ZD) shooting at its largest aperture F2 as an example. Compared to a 35mm system, it has an equivalent field of view of a 100mm lens (which we assume has the same max. aperture).

    If both lenses are focused at a subject a fixed distance away, then the ZD gives a depth of field (DOF) of a 50mm lens while the 35mm gives the DOF of a 100mm lens.

    Lenses exhibit greater DOP at shorter FLs (wide angle FOV) & shorter DOP at longer FLs (Tele FOV).

    So what we have is a 4/3 50mm lens that has a FOV of a 100mm lens and the comparatively greater DOP of a 50mm lens.

    From a practical point of view, in low light photography without flash & for the same ASA. Assuming greater DOP is the goal, eg, shooting family members inside a church during wedding, a 4/3 system can shoot at max (larger aperture) and get decent DOP and good shutter speed whereas a 35mm system needs to stop down to get better DOP & loose the benefit of faster shutter speeds that comes with a larger aperture.This should be the "two-stop" advantage Olympus is talking about.

    The added DOP of a 4/3 system may be a disadvantage if low depth of field effects are needed (eg. isolating eyelashes from a portrait's face). In this area Oly has yet to release large aperture lenses to offset the increased DOP inherent in its system design. Although it may well be true that it is cheaper to make fast lenses for smaller sensors since tolerances & material costs cater to a smaller imaging area :-)

    Cheers,
    Last edited by chancy; 30th November 2004 at 08:27 AM.

  6. #26

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    Hi Chancy
    Thanks again for your precious time in giving me a comprehensive reply.
    To sum up, am I right to understand that given that 50mm on an Oly is equivalent to 100mm on a 35mm system, but the DOF for the latter is shallower than that of the Oly 50mm. In this case, for portraiture where shallow DOF is preferred, is 50mm ZD lens not the right one? I would like to take people photos and have been contemplating the ZD 50mm F2.0 eversince Kah Heng vouched for it.

    Thanks!

  7. #27
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    Hello Serene,

    There are two resources to refer you to:

    1) A depth-of-field calculator for the 4/3 system. (PS runs only only Palm & PocketPC PDA of which I have neither)

    2) The rather dated Olympus E-System lens map (PDF) listing their planned rollout of digital zuikos.

    From the many satisfied users of the DZ 50mm Macro on internet forums, I have no doubts that this lens is a jewel in Olympus lineup.

    In your quest for a lens that handles portrait & as mentioned in your earlier posts, macros as well, you may wish to consider the following :

    Olympus is a dominant player in the microscope industry, you can count of Olympus to leverage on its expertise in this area to produce fine macro lenses. This is evident in their very complete & capable lineup of macrophotography products & accessories during the OM heydays.

    There's no macro lenses in any other manufacturers lineup that I know of that has an F2 aperture. Mated to the edge to edge sharpness of the 4/3 system's telecentric design, you will not run out of breadth for sharpness across the image when needed. But portrait photography isn't all about sharpness, in fact lenses can be too sharp, bringing out blemishes & imperfections of sensitive egos. In such cases, a lens that's slightly soft (not blur) at wide apertures is desirable. But you can get that effect from a good soft filter or in Photoshop. You have to make the call here :-)

    However, I feel that an area where large aperture matter is in available light photography, particularly where the current 4/3 sensors are deemed 'noiser' (but pleasantly film-like) than their larger counterparts.

    There are other attributes to look for in a portrait lens. Amongst them, discreetness. The compact dimensions of the DZ 50mm makes a good stealth buddy to the E300. Compared to other F2 lenses, it is unimposing & unobstrusive. It allows you to work quietly & descreetly for candid portraits. Discreetness are the hallmarks of the Leica Ms & it's nice to find that in an Olympus too. BTW the E1 is known for having a quiet shutter for a DSLR :-)

    More importantly, in the chase for less DOF, consider that too shallow a DOF can sometimes be a hindrance. You may be able to sift a strand of eyelash from its neighbours, but with DOF so shallow, keeping the models' head still is the greater challenge. Work within practical limits :-)

    Traditionally, portrait lenses range in focal lengths from 85-135mm (in 35mm systems). The 85 & 100mm is said to give a natural & dimensional effect to a person without the drawn-out exaggeration of wider angle lenses or the compressed flattened effect of longer telephotos. Olympus' road map has a short tele lens possibly a DZ 40-45mm (hopefully large aperture) that covers this favourite range. But you'll have to wait & see.

    On a side note, there's also a field of portrait photography that's known as environmental/documentary portraits where we take in the surrounding of the subject to provide more information on the subject itself, usually these involves wider angle lenses but nonethess it's another way to present people.

    For macro photography, one usually fights for more depth of field not less, the greater inherent DOF of the 4/3 system affords its users the luxury of faster shutterspeeds (handholdability). IMO where a fast F2 lens comes in useful is locating the plane of focus for the subject, it's usually closing down the aperture thereafter.

    Finally, regardless of macro or portrait photography, beyond the extra centimeters of DOF gained or lost , the rather subjective Out-Of-Focus (OOF) effect or Bokeh should be examined. Some say the number of aperture blades is a determinant of good bokeh while others choose to differ. Whichever camp you're in, take time to look at the OOF areas of a photo taken by your lens of choice, do you find the blurred transitions smooth and creamy or haltingly distracting, or would you be spending time counting the sides of specular highlights to determine number of aperture blades the taking lens has :-)

    In short, in the absence of a definitive short & fast DZ tele from Oly today, the DZ 50mm is an awesome compromise. Weigh the loss of DOF against the pluses of this lens.

    End of incoherent & wordy article on possibilities:-)
    Last edited by chancy; 1st December 2004 at 11:12 AM.

  8. #28

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    Well, I am certainly looking forward to getting the 50mm f2.0 Macro when the E-300 arrives. I am also interested in getting the Extension Tube (EX-25) for this lens. Anybody knows if this is available here and how much? Thanks.

  9. #29
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    Hi Guys,

    Analyse until paralysed..... but what I really want to know is whether I can use third party lenses such as Sigma, Tamron or Tokina on the E300 or must I use only Zuiko lenses. One step further .... how about fitting a 28 - 300mm sigma lens on the E300? Is it possible or Not?
    Last edited by Zenten; 1st December 2004 at 09:00 PM.

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zenten
    Hi Guys,

    Analyse until paralysed..... but what I really want to know is whether I can use third party lenses such as Sigma, Tamron or Tokina on the E300 or must I use only Zuiko lenses. One step further .... how about fitting a 28 - 300mm sigma lens on the E300? Is it possible or Not?
    Not possible. In short, you can just use the lenses meant specifically for the Oly FT mount. I think Sigma produced 3 (and not the high quality EX glass) which are actually more or less covered by the Oly glass as well and that's about all.

  11. #31

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    i tot there was an adaptor you could buy fit other brands of lenses?
    but these adaptor cost abit too. can check out the 4/3 accessories thread.

  12. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by uginz
    i tot there was an adaptor you could buy fit other brands of lenses?
    but these adaptor cost abit too. can check out the 4/3 accessories thread.
    There are custom-made adapters available that would allow Nikon F, Exakta, Rollei 35mm SLR, Olympus OM, Contax RTS, Leica R and Pentax 42 lenses to be used on the E-1 (and E-300) cameras. Cost US$175 each though.

    http://www.cameraquest.com/adapt_olyE1.htm

    In the US, Olympus gave away free adapters for OM lenses to owners of E-1 cameras who ask for them. Hope they xould extend the same courtesy here or at least make available their OM adapters at an affordable price.

  13. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by tomcat
    There are custom-made adapters available that would allow Nikon F,
    Is metering and AF retained? Don't see any electrical contacts.

  14. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2100
    Is metering and AF retained? Don't see any electrical contacts.
    Most if not all of these lenses are manual lenses and must therefore be used in manual mode. They are however of very high optical quality and would probably beat most of the modern lenses 'hollow' wide open.

    Take for example the OM 50mm which can give image quality at f/1.8 as good as the ZD 14-54mm at f4. Check out the comparison pics here:
    http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ssage=11265061

    I am really more interested in the OM adapter for this reason. What's more, with this adapter (at least the one from Olympus), metering is possible. The lens have to be stopped down manually of course.

  15. #35
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    Sorry but could you explain what is meant by "stopped down manually"?
    You meter the scene with the camera then input the settings into the lens?

  16. #36

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    Yes, manually set the aperture on the lens.

  17. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Evilmerlin
    Sorry but could you explain what is meant by "stopped down manually"?
    You meter the scene with the camera then input the settings into the lens?

    u simply set the cam to A mode, then turn the aperture ring to your desire F value, the cam will do the rest. this is just like good old F3, u know what i mean? if u r bold & rich enuf, get the leica adaptor & buy a leica lens. surely will not disappoint.

  18. #38
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    Hello Evilmerilin,

    In addition to what's already explained, your may wish to know that in stopped down metering, the viewfinder gets dimmer as you select smaller apertures and brighter when choosing larger ones. This will affect one's ability to manual focus indoors or when great depth of field is needed. It's like a real-time depth of field preview.

    This is because there's no mechanical / electrical mechanism for the camera to select the chosen aperture at the point the shutter is released.

    Rgds,

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by chancy
    Hello Evilmerilin,

    In addition to what's already explained, your may wish to know that in stopped down metering, the viewfinder gets dimmer as you select smaller apertures and brighter when choosing larger ones. This will affect one's ability to manual focus indoors or when great depth of field is needed. It's like a real-time depth of field preview.

    This is because there's no mechanical / electrical mechanism for the camera to select the chosen aperture at the point the shutter is released.

    Rgds,
    Are you trying to tell us that the DOF effect on the 4/3 system would not be as effective as that of a dslr on a 35mm format? No bokeh when I need it?
    Last edited by Zenten; 2nd December 2004 at 09:09 PM.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zenten
    Are you trying to tell us that the DOF effect on the 4/3 system would not be as effective as that of a dslr on a 35mm format? No bokeh when I need it?
    Hello Zenten,

    In my responses above, I did not equate Depth of Field effect to be the same as Out-Of-Focus Effect (Bokeh). It is also unclear what you mean by 'effective' depth of field effect.

    If you're keen on (low) Depth of Field effect for a 35mm system, try Canon's EOS 1Ds series or for stronger effect medium format camera systems. For the ultimate, look to large format cameras with their flexible tilt, swing & shift movements. It's all relative to imaging size/format, read & research which of these gives you the effect you seek.

    As mentioned before, the separate characteristic of bokeh is lens specific and highly subjective. Once more, research & look at samples to see which gives you the look you want.

    Rgds,

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