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Thread: Chicken n' Egg - choosing my frying pan! (lots of specs, experts, SOS!)

  1. #1

    Question Chicken n' Egg - choosing my frying pan! (lots of specs, experts, SOS!)

    Since this is a seperate topic (in case of confusion, I had posted earlier about whether I should take the plunge and get myself a DSLR), I thought I'll do another post. As most people had pointed out to me, it seems to make most sense to get hold of an actually DSLR and then learn from there. So, after some searching and alot of reading, I've narrowed my choices down to two for now. The Canon EOS Rebel T3i(that comes w EF-S 18-55m lens) and the Canon 60D (that comes with EF-S 18-135mm lens).

    Okay, here are my thoughts, I'm not sure how much sense they make, please feel free to let me know if I'm not making sense. I really hope to make a good value-for-money purchase that will fit my needs in the long run.

    My main focus and interest would be people, mostly kids, hopefully in action, indoors and outdors, in lighting conditions of all types.

    I'm currently in the States for a while, and the price difference of these two for me (based on the best price I could find online) would be nearly USD$400 (kinda alot of money here but still affordable yet would be a COMPLETE waste if I dont maximise the 60D's capabilities, right?). I've read thru and compared the specs of both DSLRs several times but because I have like ZERO experience, I'll need you guys to help me weigh in on this to make sure Im not making the wrong choice.

    Here are the differences I've got from the specs:

    -recording format, 60D has M-RAW and S-RAW but T3i doesnt (I cant think my books said what M and S RAW means..)

    -60D has color temperature setting (wth is that?) but T3i doesnt

    -eyepoint (again, what does this do?): T3i's approx 19mm, 60D's is 22mm

    -focusing screen: 60D says Interchangeable (Ef-D: Grid lines, Ef-S: Point of focus, Ef-A standard focusing screen provided) T3i says Fixed. (again, what is this?)

    -60D has "External Flash Settings, Flash function settings, Flash C.Fn settings", T3i doesnt state so.

    -Continuous Shooting Speed : 60D high speed 5.3 low speed 3.0; T3i max 3.7

    -Metering mode: 60D has Real-time Evaluative metering with the image sensor, T3i uses AF point-linked evaluative metering & Center-weighted average metering
    (is this important?)

    So, are these differences likely to be important enough to me to worth the price and weight dfference between the two (ok, if you cant tell yet, I'm not a man, am more on the petite side, and do not like lugging around unnecessary weight, so this DOES matter to me, haha yes I'm a wimp )?

    I am also concerned that the 18-135mm lens really do seem to be much bigger than the 18-55mm, and that WILL contribute to the weight, right? Would the 18-135mm lens help me signficantly with my photograpahy if I'm photographing kids/people?

    I cant get the 60D with the 18-55mm lens cos its not sold as a set and if I buy seperately, its gonna end up costing me MORE than the lens it came bundled with(the 18-135m).

    And a last question, IF (a huge IF) I ever want to do this more professionally (very prolly not, but just curious) would either DSLRs cut it (with the addition of more equipment like other/better lens of cos)?

    So......what do you all reckon?

  2. #2

    Default Re: Chicken n' Egg - choosing my frying pan! (lots of specs, experts, SOS!)

    get the 60D and don't look too much into the technical aspects.

    what you need to start off with is the basic aperture/shutter/iso.

    60D would last you a pretty long time, as long as you don't gear lust for the new bodies that come out every year. Anyway in my opinion i rather invest in lens than bodies that come out on a yearly basis.

    18 - 135. no experience there, but since it's a kit just use it to learn the basics. should be sufficient.

  3. #3
    Moderator rhino123's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chicken n' Egg - choosing my frying pan! (lots of specs, experts, SOS!)

    Quote Originally Posted by BBshooter View Post
    Since this is a seperate topic (in case of confusion, I had posted earlier about whether I should take the plunge and get myself a DSLR), I thought I'll do another post. As most people had pointed out to me, it seems to make most sense to get hold of an actually DSLR and then learn from there. So, after some searching and alot of reading, I've narrowed my choices down to two for now. The Canon EOS Rebel T3i(that comes w EF-S 18-55m lens) and the Canon 60D (that comes with EF-S 18-135mm lens).

    Okay, here are my thoughts, I'm not sure how much sense they make, please feel free to let me know if I'm not making sense. I really hope to make a good value-for-money purchase that will fit my needs in the long run.

    My main focus and interest would be people, mostly kids, hopefully in action, indoors and outdors, in lighting conditions of all types.

    I'm currently in the States for a while, and the price difference of these two for me (based on the best price I could find online) would be nearly USD$400 (kinda alot of money here but still affordable yet would be a COMPLETE waste if I dont maximise the 60D's capabilities, right?). I've read thru and compared the specs of both DSLRs several times but because I have like ZERO experience, I'll need you guys to help me weigh in on this to make sure Im not making the wrong choice.

    Here are the differences I've got from the specs:

    -recording format, 60D has M-RAW and S-RAW but T3i doesnt (I cant think my books said what M and S RAW means..)

    -60D has color temperature setting (wth is that?) but T3i doesnt

    -eyepoint (again, what does this do?): T3i's approx 19mm, 60D's is 22mm

    -focusing screen: 60D says Interchangeable (Ef-D: Grid lines, Ef-S: Point of focus, Ef-A standard focusing screen provided) T3i says Fixed. (again, what is this?)

    -60D has "External Flash Settings, Flash function settings, Flash C.Fn settings", T3i doesnt state so.

    -Continuous Shooting Speed : 60D high speed 5.3 low speed 3.0; T3i max 3.7

    -Metering mode: 60D has Real-time Evaluative metering with the image sensor, T3i uses AF point-linked evaluative metering & Center-weighted average metering
    (is this important?)

    So, are these differences likely to be important enough to me to worth the price and weight dfference between the two (ok, if you cant tell yet, I'm not a man, am more on the petite side, and do not like lugging around unnecessary weight, so this DOES matter to me, haha yes I'm a wimp )?

    I am also concerned that the 18-135mm lens really do seem to be much bigger than the 18-55mm, and that WILL contribute to the weight, right? Would the 18-135mm lens help me signficantly with my photograpahy if I'm photographing kids/people?

    I cant get the 60D with the 18-55mm lens cos its not sold as a set and if I buy seperately, its gonna end up costing me MORE than the lens it came bundled with(the 18-135m).

    And a last question, IF (a huge IF) I ever want to do this more professionally (very prolly not, but just curious) would either DSLRs cut it (with the addition of more equipment like other/better lens of cos)?

    So......what do you all reckon?
    Have you gone down to the shop and had a feel of these cameras. The 60D is abit bigger and heavier as compared to the T3i (600D). For me, I would not get the 600D because it is too small for my hand and I would need a battery grip to feel better with it (heck, even my 7D is kind of small in my hand and my little pinky is homeless).

    That say... it is a very personal feeling. none of us can tell you how you feel when handling this two cameras though... some might feel the 600D just nice for them, others might feel otherwise.

    Another thing you might need to look into was whether you are comfortable with handling the 600D that is without both main scroll and dial that 60D had for quick controls (I mean, 600D only had 1 scroll/dial while 60D had two)... and also 60D had a top LCD which I find very very important and easy to use, while 600D don't have.

    Basically, I think image quality wise, both are pretty near each other, it boils down more on control and feel of the camera.
    Last edited by rhino123; 10th January 2012 at 01:43 PM.
    I am not a photographer, just someone who happened to have a couple of cameras.
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  4. #4
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    Default Re: Chicken n' Egg - choosing my frying pan! (lots of specs, experts, SOS!)

    The is just my personal opinion...Technically between the 2, there are abit of difference between the 60D and 600D, but chances are, you may not understand at this moment what are those differences.

    But as for your original post
    - recording format
    Nothing special here, M-Raw = Medium sized RAW, S-Raw = Small sized Raw. Not sure how it works, but I will still recommend Original Large size raw.

    - 60D has color temperature setting
    For setting the temperature. This can be done during post processing (PP) easily if you shoot in RAW. Can be useful if you dun want to waste too much time fiddling around the temperature during PP or if you are shooting JPEG only

    - eyepoint
    The distance your eye will be away from the eyecup (or viewfinder...) Normally People wearing glasses will want a longer eyepoint.

    - Continuous Shooting Speed
    How many shots you can fire in a second. FPS = frames per seconds

    - Metering mode
    Not too sure about this one, but I normally use Spot, Partial Center metering from the center af point.


    Also, if you will be shooting alot of fast paced action, you may even want to push abit more for 7D (7 fps). But some other brands can give you 10fps at abit lower price than 7D thou. If you are VERY uncertain about this hobby (if you can keep up), I seriously recommend a 600D instead.
    Too many great equipments but too little quality photos. [My Flickr] | [My Blog]

  5. #5

    Default Re: Chicken n' Egg - choosing my frying pan! (lots of specs, experts, SOS!)

    Quote Originally Posted by SkyStrike View Post

    Also, if you will be shooting alot of fast paced action, you may even want to push abit more for 7D (7 fps). But some other brands can give you 10fps at abit lower price than 7D thou. If you are VERY uncertain about this hobby (if you can keep up), I seriously recommend a 600D instead.
    Oh man... you are messing with my head LOL! I spent so long agonising and thinking and finally narrowing down to two, and now u mention 7D! :P

    Oh my...

  6. #6

    Default Re: Chicken n' Egg - choosing my frying pan! (lots of specs, experts, SOS!)

    yes, don't worry too much about the specs at the moment. once you get your hands on the camera, you will be able to understand when you experiment with the various settings.

    Good that you've already narrowed down to two choices. Between the two, I'd say go for the 60D. I have that camera and i'd say its a pretty decent camera for a newbie.

    For your use, the 18-135mm lens is also a good range to start with.





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  7. #7

    Default Re: Chicken n' Egg - choosing my frying pan! (lots of specs, experts, SOS!)

    Quote Originally Posted by BBshooter View Post
    Oh man... you are messing with my head LOL! I spent so long agonising and thinking and finally narrowing down to two, and now u mention 7D! :P

    Oh my...
    ...And that's much more expensive than other brands that can give you 10FPS and full-speed AF in liveview and Video at the price of the T3i...
    Alpha

  8. #8

    Default Re: Chicken n' Egg - choosing my frying pan! (lots of specs, experts, SOS!)

    Hours ago, my friend asked me the same question. 600D and 60D, which should he get for his 1st camera?
    It didn't took me more than 0.1 sec to think and reply him, and this is exactly what I said, "60D, 600D is for girls." (No disrespect for any xxxD owner or female, in fact i do own a xxxD series.)

    600D isn't really suitable for male merely because of the ergonomics, the size of the camera, it's just ridiculously small for a male hand.

    To share with you my experience, my 1st camera was a 500D, I had no idea that DSLR vary in size then. It's a pretty damn good camera, 16mp, pretty good noise control till 400iso. But the grip is horrible, my pinky will always be sticking out of the camera.
    Therefore, the 1st accessory I bought for it, is none other than a battery grip, at the point of time I was like " OMG! BATTERY GRIP IS GOD SENT!!! AWESOME GRIP WITH DOUBLE THE BATTERY LIFE!! 8D "
    But the down side of battery grip, will be the extra weight, and sometimes, it's too fat to fit into some bags.

    Since then, I have upgraded to a larger size DLSR, and hell yeah I love the grip of the camera even without a battery girp, and that's why I strongly suggest you to get yourself a 60D than a 600D.

    Edit: I am pretty sure 60D do comes with the 18-55mm kit if that's your consent, or at least it's stated on their website.
    http://www.canon.com.sg/personal/pro...anguageCode=EN
    Last edited by killerl; 10th January 2012 at 01:37 PM.

  9. #9
    Moderator rhino123's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chicken n' Egg - choosing my frying pan! (lots of specs, experts, SOS!)

    Quote Originally Posted by BBshooter View Post
    Oh man... you are messing with my head LOL! I spent so long agonising and thinking and finally narrowing down to two, and now u mention 7D! :P

    Oh my...
    Forget 7D if you are very particular about weigh. 7D is very heavy (heavier than 60D)...

    Like I say before, get down to the nearest shop and had a feel of the two cameras, see which one feels better. Image quality wise, they are top notch, very very decent... even in very low or bad lighting. And seriously, do you really need blazingly fast continuous shooting? If the answer is yes... then you can forget about 600D... in fact 60D also don't give you that machinegun like continuous shooting... but through experience I find that function not really needed... even when you are shoot sports and I don't think kids move that fast.
    I am not a photographer, just someone who happened to have a couple of cameras.
    My lousy shots

  10. #10

    Default Re: Chicken n' Egg - choosing my frying pan! (lots of specs, experts, SOS!)

    At this point, the feature/technical difference you mentioned won't make too much of a difference to you.
    The 60D is a higher end camera body with the differences (and more) that you highlighted, but in terms of photo taking, it does not make a difference (these are more 'creature comforts' or 'advanced features' and features for working fast).

    Get the one that budget comfortably allows.
    Size wise, these are not really the bodies that are small/est.
    Other brands or formats can be smaller and still pack as good quality.
    Eg.
    A Pentax Kr is smaller and feature packed as the 600D and offers a selection of small sized lenses designed for APS-C.
    Mirrorless m4/3, NEX, NX series cameras offers even smaller form factors.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Chicken n' Egg - choosing my frying pan! (lots of specs, experts, SOS!)

    Quote Originally Posted by killerl View Post
    Hours ago, my friend asked me the same question. 600D and 60D, which should he get for his 1st camera?
    It didn't took me more than 0.1 sec to think and reply him, and this is exactly what I said, "60D, 600D is for girls." (No disrespect for any xxxD owner or female, in fact i do own a xxxD series.)
    You're not wrong. My Japanese friends told me the same thing - that's why it's called "Kiss" in Japan. It's designed for housewives to take pictures of their kids.
    Alpha

  12. #12

    Default Re: Chicken n' Egg - choosing my frying pan! (lots of specs, experts, SOS!)

    My pick would be Canon 60D. and yes..kit lens 18-135mm would be very useful because it covers quite a large common used Focal length. To some extend maybe you will find 135 too much also..who knows. Just get it start shooting.

    If weight is a big concern to you..in the very first place.. you shouldnt have consider DSLR..you should go compact or mirror-less.

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    Default Re: Chicken n' Egg - choosing my frying pan! (lots of specs, experts, SOS!)

    Get the 60D, you won't regret it.
    Cheap lenses are not good AND Good lenses are not cheap!

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    Default Re: Chicken n' Egg - choosing my frying pan! (lots of specs, experts, SOS!)

    Quote Originally Posted by killerl View Post
    Hours ago, my friend asked me the same question. 600D and 60D, which should he get for his 1st camera?
    It didn't took me more than 0.1 sec to think and reply him, and this is exactly what I said, "60D, 600D is for girls." (No disrespect for any xxxD owner or female, in fact i do own a xxxD series.)

    600D isn't really suitable for male merely because of the ergonomics, the size of the camera, it's just ridiculously small for a male hand.

    To share with you my experience, my 1st camera was a 500D, I had no idea that DSLR vary in size then. It's a pretty damn good camera, 16mp, pretty good noise control till 400iso. But the grip is horrible, my pinky will always be sticking out of the camera.
    Therefore, the 1st accessory I bought for it, is none other than a battery grip, at the point of time I was like " OMG! BATTERY GRIP IS GOD SENT!!! AWESOME GRIP WITH DOUBLE THE BATTERY LIFE!! 8D "
    But the down side of battery grip, will be the extra weight, and sometimes, it's too fat to fit into some bags.

    Since then, I have upgraded to a larger size DLSR, and hell yeah I love the grip of the camera even without a battery girp, and that's why I strongly suggest you to get yourself a 60D than a 600D.

    Edit: I am pretty sure 60D do comes with the 18-55mm kit if that's your consent, or at least it's stated on their website.
    EOS 60D Kit (EF S18-55 IS) - Canon Singapore - Personal
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    Default Re: Chicken n' Egg - choosing my frying pan! (lots of specs, experts, SOS!)

    Quote Originally Posted by BBshooter View Post
    Oh man... you are messing with my head LOL! I spent so long agonising and thinking and finally narrowing down to two, and now u mention 7D! :P

    Oh my...



    btw, Your usage seems to cover alot of things:

    My main focus and interest would be people, mostly kids, hopefully in action, indoors and outdors, in lighting conditions of all types.
    imo

    People = Any camera? But If you to control the DOF, go FF
    Kids = "fast" paced movements (I'm assuming running around) = need abit of FPS and focusing (Not sure how good the 60D is, but I read somewhere that 7D is faster at focusing compared to 5Dii). If your kid is sitting still, any camera can do it...
    Indoor = Use flash, so any camera can do it..
    Outdoor = Any camera?
    Lighting Conditions of all type....get a FF -_-


    *Just get one that you happy and get over it the more you ask, the more confused you will be....*
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    Default Re: Chicken n' Egg - choosing my frying pan! (lots of specs, experts, SOS!)

    Quote Originally Posted by SkyStrike View Post
    People = Any camera? But If you to control the DOF, go FF

    Lighting Conditions of all type....get a FF -_-
    Bro, by FF i suppose you mean full frame? Could you explain why you need specifically need FF to control DOF and work with lighting conditions of all types?

    Just a curious question
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  17. #17

    Default Re: Chicken n' Egg - choosing my frying pan! (lots of specs, experts, SOS!)

    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil123 View Post
    Real men use this?

    I am still on my way to manhood, perhaps in a decade or 2, I'll become a real man...

  18. #18

    Default Re: Chicken n' Egg - choosing my frying pan! (lots of specs, experts, SOS!)

    Quote Originally Posted by SkyStrike View Post
    People = Any camera? But If you to control the DOF, go FF

    Lighting Conditions of all type....get a FF -_-


    wow. FF and crop DOF got difference eh now?

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Chicken n' Egg - choosing my frying pan! (lots of specs, experts, SOS!)

    Quote Originally Posted by brkit View Post
    Bro, by FF i suppose you mean full frame? Could you explain why you need specifically need FF to control DOF and work with lighting conditions of all types?

    Just a curious question
    I guess I misread the part on the DOF (Depth of Field, Digital Photography and Crop Sensor Cameras - Bob Atkins Photography), but for the lighting of all types, I'm assuming from the brightest day to the darkest night which at the darkest moment, I would assume cleaner pics at higher ISO will eventually turn out to be the "usable"? Cleaner higher ISO usually comes from larger sensors If I did not misread wrongly again..
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  20. #20

    Default Re: Chicken n' Egg - choosing my frying pan! (lots of specs, experts, SOS!)

    Quote Originally Posted by SkyStrike View Post
    the brightest day to the darkest night
    No evil shall escape my sight
    Let those who worship evil's might,
    Beware my power...

    60D high ISO quite clean in my opinion.

    don't know about the rest.

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