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Thread: Am I the only one completely unimpressed with the D4 announcements and samples?

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by devilry
    You are not the only one that's unimpressed with the D4. I posted my dislike for the so called upgrade in D4 on the first day of its announcement in the D4 announcement thread but I got knocked over and over by other posters saying that there's still significant upgrades in the terms of usability... Which of course frankly I disagree and would stick to the D3s which is gona be cheaper but still not bad.. Except for the 10 to 16mp upgrade which is very useful for me and considered to be the only upgrade for me, all the other stuffs are just "blink blink" stuff. I call them "blink blink" stuffs because they are nikon's 'supposedly' upgrades to attract ur attention like the way Christmas lightings attract ur attention, but they are just neither useful nor groundbreaking.. Considering that it's nikon's flagship, I expected way much better improvements over the D3s. This D4 camera just seems to me as a half-hearted effort from Nikon...
    Now, given your argument, with all ur knowledge in both products. If you don't have a single full frame camera, and you need to buy one, and it must be a new piece, not 2nd hand, would you consider buying a D3s or D4, given if the price difference is abt S$500 with D4 being more expensive? Surrephoto, could you answer as well? Need your opinion.
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  2. #42
    Senior Member ZerocoolAstra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Am I the only one completely unimpressed with the D4 announcements and samples?

    Quote Originally Posted by devilry View Post
    You are not the only one that's unimpressed with the D4. I posted my dislike for the so called upgrade in D4 on the first day of its announcement in the D4 announcement thread but I got knocked over and over by other posters saying that there's still significant upgrades in the terms of usability... Which of course frankly I disagree and would stick to the D3s which is gona be cheaper but still not bad.. Except for the 10 to 16mp upgrade which is very useful for me and considered to be the only upgrade for me, all the other stuffs are just "blink blink" stuff. I call them "blink blink" stuffs because they are nikon's 'supposedly' upgrades to attract ur attention like the way Christmas lightings attract ur attention, but they are just neither useful nor groundbreaking.. Considering that it's nikon's flagship, I expected way much better improvements over the D3s. This D4 camera just seems to me as a half-hearted effort from Nikon...
    Well, how many product lines can you think of that are revolutionary from one iteration to the next?
    It seems like the product does not meet your expectations, but could it be that your expectations are too unrealistic?
    Exploring! :)

  3. #43

    Default Re: Am I the only one completely unimpressed with the D4 announcements and samples?

    I think what some other people expecting the D4 to be like these:

    - compact body size and light weight like a Leica M9
    - metal material body
    - at least 70 to 100 AF points and all are cross-type
    - native ISO 100 - 200,000 at least
    - can shoot a moving black cat clearly and sharply without blur in a totally dark environment
    - water proof (no fear of dropping into sea, river or longkang)
    - accurate WB(you get what you see)
    Kent Wong Photography |Leica Q & Leica M-P 240 | 75 & 28mm Summilux

  4. #44
    Senior Member Kit's Avatar
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    Default Re: Am I the only one completely unimpressed with the D4 announcements and samples?

    with built-in

    - Blu Ray player
    - Espresso machine
    - Vaccum cleaner
    - Blender
    - Kitchen sink
    - Hazmat detector
    - MRT breakdown survivor kit
    - ATM fraud proof instructions

    yada yada yada.....

  5. #45

    Default Re: Am I the only one completely unimpressed with the D4 announcements and samples?

    conclusion:
    they are just like pepsi,
    keep asking for more.

  6. #46

    Default Re: Am I the only one completely unimpressed with the D4 announcements and samples?

    Yes, some people come to the stage where they feel they are so superior in their knowledge & skills that nothing, nothing is ever good enough for them. But I have yet to see what is so superior in their works & creativity that these technologically advanced tools are so very very inadequate. If we take a look back, even in the days of old manual cameras & lens, great, fantastic photos were taken. To me a bad workman quarrels with his tools

    I would love to get my hands on the D4 but afraid it would only embarrass me - it will highlight the shortfalls & inadequacies in my skills.... Am instead awaiting the D800 which is round the corner
    Last edited by s1221ljc; 13th January 2012 at 05:41 PM.

  7. #47

    Default Re: Am I the only one completely unimpressed with the D4 announcements and samples?

    You guys are really totally missing the point and the comments of the ATM fraud protection, Blu-ray player and Coffee maker really made me laugh on this eerie Friday the 13th.

    You guys just to step back to the days of the D2Xs.

    At that time of the D2Xs, it is just a simple pure camera. It uses simple APS-C sensor, It has poor iso capability, with grains that are rather visible even at a measly iso 800, low 5fps at full resolution of 12mp, simple 11-area AF and just 9 cross-type AF sensors, small 2.5inch LCD.

    Then suddenly, the D3 arrives. The D3 jump from the D2Xs is what I call a groundbreaking jump. And this jump from the Nikon D2 series to 3 series have awesome groundbreaking features. Now this D3 monster is Nikon’s FIRST EVER FULL FRAME, FIRST to feature 51-area AF up from the previous 11-area AF, First to do continuous shooting at 9FPS at full resolution, First Nikon with much faster AF tracking in Nikon’s history with the 3D tracking, First to do 11FPS at cropped resolution, feature live view shooting, a much better 3 inch 922,000 pixel LCD, First to feature usable iso 6400 that no competitor can match in the market at that point in time (that’s a remarkable 3 stops better than the D2Xs). This camera is also the camera that managed to triump over canon’s 1D Mark III and convinced many Pro shooters to migrate to the Nikon platform. And best of all the Nikon D3 was sold at almost equivalent price as the D2Xs announcement price.

    Based on all these groundbreaking stuffs that are seen in the D2Xs to D3 upgrade, you guys sit down and think whether the upgrades from D3s to D4 is revolutionary or is it just a half hearted attempt. Considering what Nikon had achieved with the D3 upgrade, what kind of upgrade is a D4? And best of all, Nikon still had the cheek to charge so high for the D4. The price of the D4 is announced at USD6,000 compared to the D3 at USD5,000. , It’s so much more expensive than the D2Xs and D3 previously announced. It’s not just a SGD500 difference, we are talking about an almost SGD1,500 difference here. Are the tiny updates and tweaks here and there worth the SGD1,500 difference? Definitely not for me, and I would rather get a D3s now anytime over the D4, although the D3s is older already. I can save the SGD 1,500 and buy myself a real blu-ray player, espresso machine, vacuum cleaner, blender and a kitchen sink, with some spare change!!!

    Unless you guys can really show me a compartment within the D4 to slot in a Blu-Ray disc or produce nice coffee for me, there’s nothing substantial about the D4 to prove me wrong that D4 is really indeed a revolutionary product.

    Come coffee makers, prove me wrong. Otherwise it's just a fanboy screaming "mama, the new D4 from Nikon very good leh, because it's a 4 and not a 3, and 4 is bigger than 3"

  8. #48

    Default Re: Am I the only one completely unimpressed with the D4 announcements and samples?

    Quote Originally Posted by devilry View Post
    You guys are really totally missing the point and the comments of the ATM fraud protection, Blu-ray player and Coffee maker really made me laugh on this eerie Friday the 13th.

    You guys just to step back to the days of the D2Xs.

    At that time of the D2Xs, it is just a simple pure camera. It uses simple APS-C sensor, It has poor iso capability, with grains that are rather visible even at a measly iso 800, low 5fps at full resolution of 12mp, simple 11-area AF and just 9 cross-type AF sensors, small 2.5inch LCD.

    Then suddenly, the D3 arrives. The D3 jump from the D2Xs is what I call a groundbreaking jump. And this jump from the Nikon D2 series to 3 series have awesome groundbreaking features. Now this D3 monster is Nikon’s FIRST EVER FULL FRAME, FIRST to feature 51-area AF up from the previous 11-area AF, First to do continuous shooting at 9FPS at full resolution, First Nikon with much faster AF tracking in Nikon’s history with the 3D tracking, First to do 11FPS at cropped resolution, feature live view shooting, a much better 3 inch 922,000 pixel LCD, First to feature usable iso 6400 that no competitor can match in the market at that point in time (that’s a remarkable 3 stops better than the D2Xs). This camera is also the camera that managed to triump over canon’s 1D Mark III and convinced many Pro shooters to migrate to the Nikon platform. And best of all the Nikon D3 was sold at almost equivalent price as the D2Xs announcement price.

    Based on all these groundbreaking stuffs that are seen in the D2Xs to D3 upgrade, you guys sit down and think whether the upgrades from D3s to D4 is revolutionary or is it just a half hearted attempt. Considering what Nikon had achieved with the D3 upgrade, what kind of upgrade is a D4? And best of all, Nikon still had the cheek to charge so high for the D4. The price of the D4 is announced at USD6,000 compared to the D3 at USD5,000. , It’s so much more expensive than the D2Xs and D3 previously announced. It’s not just a SGD500 difference, we are talking about an almost SGD1,500 difference here. Are the tiny updates and tweaks here and there worth the SGD1,500 difference? Definitely not for me, and I would rather get a D3s now anytime over the D4, although the D3s is older already. I can save the SGD 1,500 and buy myself a real blu-ray player, espresso machine, vacuum cleaner, blender and a kitchen sink, with some spare change!!!

    Unless you guys can really show me a compartment within the D4 to slot in a Blu-Ray disc or produce nice coffee for me, there’s nothing substantial about the D4 to prove me wrong that D4 is really indeed a revolutionary product.

    Come coffee makers, prove me wrong. Otherwise it's just a fanboy screaming "mama, the new D4 from Nikon very good leh, because it's a 4 and not a 3, and 4 is bigger than 3"
    The leap from D2 to D3 was so big that Nikon has practically run out of "big" things to do. The only thing left is incremental improvements to an already solid camera just to show that "hey, we're not resting on our laurels".

    I doubt we'll see a leap like that of D2 to D3 anytime soon. We got a big performance leap moving from the 486 to the Pentium, and didn't see that performance leap again until the P4 was replaced by Core2 - roughly a decade.

  9. #49
    Senior Member ZerocoolAstra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Am I the only one completely unimpressed with the D4 announcements and samples?

    devilry, I certainly agree that the D3 -> D4 change isn't nearly as groundbreaking/revolutionary as the D2X -> D3 change.

    but that's the thing.. if every model down this pipeline is revolutionary from 1 generation to the next, the D4 should be able to do what kentwong81 said a few posts earlier:
    Quote Originally Posted by kentwong81
    I think what some other people expecting the D4 to be like these:

    - compact body size and light weight like a Leica M9
    - metal material body
    - at least 70 to 100 AF points and all are cross-type
    - native ISO 100 - 200,000 at least
    - can shoot a moving black cat clearly and sharply without blur in a totally dark environment
    - water proof (no fear of dropping into sea, river or longkang)
    - accurate WB(you get what you see)
    and the D5 probably would have an espresso machine and what-have-you-not built-in

    I don't know if you're a car fanatic, but I can draw some parallels if you look through the model history of the Porsche 911.

    Each model is pretty much exactly the same shape. They may put in a completely new engine, built from the ground up (revolutionary eh?), but ultimately it still burns petroleum in order to drive some pistons back and forth really quickly. And they persist (the gall of them) to charge more for each new model that comes off the drawing board, despite giving you more of the same. Where's the vertical take-off? Where are the re-inflatable tyres? Where's the feature that allows it to transform from 2-door to 4-door?

    Truth is the latest model pretty much looks and drives like the model from 20 or 30 years ago, albeit with lots of finessing over details.
    Are you going to pay over half a million Singapore dollars for a new Porsche 911, when the 1980 model, for all practical purposes in Singapore, gets the same number of people from Point A to B as quickly and costs a whole lot less? Why not? Lots of people lining up with their cheque books

    The whole point of the matter is that it's not so ridiculous that the D4 costs more than the D3S for (what you feel is) practically the same camera. There will be features that make a genuine difference to the workflow of a professional, and that may be enough to justify the outlay of moolah.
    Exploring! :)

  10. #50
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    I have things that agree and disagree from both sides, but pretty sure we have one thing in common. We all wish for a lower MSRP by the time they officially launch D4, agree?
    Equipment: D800|D700|11-16|28-75|105 Micro VR|50 F1.4G|85 F1.8G
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  11. #51
    New Member kriegsketten's Avatar
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    Default Re: Am I the only one completely unimpressed with the D4 announcements and samples?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cowseye View Post
    I have things that agree and disagree from both sides, but pretty sure we have one thing in common. We all wish for a lower MSRP by the time they officially launch D4, agree?
    "Ai Pi Ai Hor"

    Frankly, I would be only too happy if they don't increase it from the current D3S MSRP!

    Imagine they "had to" succumb to such requests (yeah, that will be the day)... With the release of newer subsequent replacement models, the price keeps decreasing until everyone can finally afford the "king of the hill" to hang around their neck as their "jewelry". And then the tech departments will receive multitudes of complaint calls like : "how come I pressed the shuttle button already hor, picture come out so lousy one? They say this is Nikon's King of Mountain leh, not true leh...."

    Coming from a producer of products, if I spend a lot time and money, backed by extensive research just to deliver quality stuff and my customers loved it yet they keep asking me to lower my price or else they won't buy... I might as well close shop...

    Not targetting at anyone, just wanna say that sometimes we've got to be reasonable...
    Last edited by kriegsketten; 13th January 2012 at 10:39 PM.
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  12. #52

    Default Re: Am I the only one completely unimpressed with the D4 announcements and samples?

    A basketball in my hands is worth about $19
    A basketball in Michael Jordan's hands is worth about $33 million.
    It depends whose hands it's in

    A baseball in my hands is worth about $6
    A baseball in Mark McGuire's hands is worth $19 million
    It depends whose hands it's in

    A tennis racket is useless in my hands
    A tennis racket in Pete Sampras' hands is a Wimbledon Championship.
    It depends whose hands it's in

    A D4 in your hands is another paperweight;
    A D200 in my hands feed a family of 4.
    It depends whose hands it's in

  13. #53

    Default Re: Am I the only one completely unimpressed with the D4 announcements and samples?

    Quote Originally Posted by jopel View Post
    A basketball in my hands is worth about $19
    A basketball in Michael Jordan's hands is worth about $33 million.
    It depends whose hands it's in

    A baseball in my hands is worth about $6
    A baseball in Mark McGuire's hands is worth $19 million
    It depends whose hands it's in

    A tennis racket is useless in my hands
    A tennis racket in Pete Sampras' hands is a Wimbledon Championship.
    It depends whose hands it's in

    A D4 in your hands is another paperweight;
    A D200 in my hands feed a family of 4.
    It depends whose hands it's in
    This is an epic and fitting reply siah Jopel! Good ah!
    WTB Manfrotto RC4 L Bracket

  14. #54
    Senior Member UncleFai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jopel
    A basketball in my hands is worth about $19
    A basketball in Michael Jordan's hands is worth about $33 million.
    It depends whose hands it's in

    A baseball in my hands is worth about $6
    A baseball in Mark McGuire's hands is worth $19 million
    It depends whose hands it's in

    A tennis racket is useless in my hands
    A tennis racket in Pete Sampras' hands is a Wimbledon Championship.
    It depends whose hands it's in

    A D4 in your hands is another paperweight;
    A D200 in my hands feed a family of 4.
    It depends whose hands it's in
    Actually only true to a point lah.

    Look at Joe McNally's blog about his photo shoot for the D4. I consider him an excellent pro. You see from the photos, he has (I counted) 4 assistants, tons of equipments (lighting etc.) that complements the camera. Not to mention access to locations and people plus PP. The camera and lens by itself is just a part of the workflow.

    A friend showed me a beautiful shot of the NDP (I think) fireworks at Marina Bay made by a friend of his. "Excellent photography!" he proclaimed. I saw and said "wow!" then continued "Err... but how he got that angle?" "Oh he paid $xxx (if I remembered correctly near 4 figures) for a one night stay at a room on top of the Pan Pacific and slugged his equipments there."

    Someone like Pete Sampras... Of course he worked his way up. But besides the tennis racket in his hand, he would have an entire entourage plus equipment supporting him. That racket is just a part of it. Of course he has talent, and the talent is the dominant factor. But people forget the supporting environment.
    Last edited by UncleFai; 14th January 2012 at 11:58 AM.

  15. #55

    Default Re: Am I the only one completely unimpressed with the D4 announcements and samples?

    Yeah, D4 very unimpressed..............

    So waiting for the D4s.....................

    Just a word of excused to stop me from the BBB virus....................

  16. #56
    Member kwanhan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Am I the only one completely unimpressed with the D4 announcements and samples?

    at the end of the day get the right tools for the right job.

    good photographers don't need the biggestest and the bestestest all the time... better equipment makes nailing a particular shot easier sometimes, or opens up possibilities (as with the case of high ISO)... but if u don't have the best.. produce great output with what's in your hands.

    and let your works do the talking.

  17. #57

    Default Re: Am I the only one completely unimpressed with the D4 announcements and samples?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cowseye View Post
    Now, given your argument, with all ur knowledge in both products. If you don't have a single full frame camera, and you need to buy one, and it must be a new piece, not 2nd hand, would you consider buying a D3s or D4, given if the price difference is abt S$500 with D4 being more expensive? Surrephoto, could you answer as well? Need your opinion.
    So much for the D4 being a not so impressed upgrade, there is no reason for you to buy a D3s new over a D4 imho. At least you still get better ergonomics (additional 2 joystick, better meter position), more megapixels, much better video & better dynamic range.

    Quote Originally Posted by kentwong81 View Post
    I think what some other people expecting the D4 to be like these:

    - compact body size and light weight like a Leica M9
    - metal material body
    - at least 70 to 100 AF points and all are cross-type
    - native ISO 100 - 200,000 at least
    - can shoot a moving black cat clearly and sharply without blur in a totally dark environment
    - water proof (no fear of dropping into sea, river or longkang)
    - accurate WB(you get what you see)
    Actually many people were expecting all 51 AF points to be cross type. I believe 1DX has 40+ points cross-type now, it might just be good on paper as I've said cross point not necessarily = good point, but 15 points and clumped in the center is way too 2005 technology.

    Quote Originally Posted by devilry View Post
    You guys are really totally missing the point and the comments of the ATM fraud protection, Blu-ray player and Coffee maker really made me laugh on this eerie Friday the 13th.

    You guys just to step back to the days of the D2Xs.

    At that time of the D2Xs, it is just a simple pure camera. It uses simple APS-C sensor, It has poor iso capability, with grains that are rather visible even at a measly iso 800, low 5fps at full resolution of 12mp, simple 11-area AF and just 9 cross-type AF sensors, small 2.5inch LCD.

    Then suddenly, the D3 arrives. The D3 jump from the D2Xs is what I call a groundbreaking jump. And this jump from the Nikon D2 series to 3 series have awesome groundbreaking features. Now this D3 monster is Nikon’s FIRST EVER FULL FRAME, FIRST to feature 51-area AF up from the previous 11-area AF, First to do continuous shooting at 9FPS at full resolution, First Nikon with much faster AF tracking in Nikon’s history with the 3D tracking, First to do 11FPS at cropped resolution, feature live view shooting, a much better 3 inch 922,000 pixel LCD, First to feature usable iso 6400 that no competitor can match in the market at that point in time (that’s a remarkable 3 stops better than the D2Xs). This camera is also the camera that managed to triump over canon’s 1D Mark III and convinced many Pro shooters to migrate to the Nikon platform. And best of all the Nikon D3 was sold at almost equivalent price as the D2Xs announcement price.

    Based on all these groundbreaking stuffs that are seen in the D2Xs to D3 upgrade, you guys sit down and think whether the upgrades from D3s to D4 is revolutionary or is it just a half hearted attempt. Considering what Nikon had achieved with the D3 upgrade, what kind of upgrade is a D4? And best of all, Nikon still had the cheek to charge so high for the D4. The price of the D4 is announced at USD6,000 compared to the D3 at USD5,000. , It’s so much more expensive than the D2Xs and D3 previously announced. It’s not just a SGD500 difference, we are talking about an almost SGD1,500 difference here. Are the tiny updates and tweaks here and there worth the SGD1,500 difference? Definitely not for me, and I would rather get a D3s now anytime over the D4, although the D3s is older already. I can save the SGD 1,500 and buy myself a real blu-ray player, espresso machine, vacuum cleaner, blender and a kitchen sink, with some spare change!!!

    Unless you guys can really show me a compartment within the D4 to slot in a Blu-Ray disc or produce nice coffee for me, there’s nothing substantial about the D4 to prove me wrong that D4 is really indeed a revolutionary product.

    Come coffee makers, prove me wrong. Otherwise it's just a fanboy screaming "mama, the new D4 from Nikon very good leh, because it's a 4 and not a 3, and 4 is bigger than 3"
    The upgrade is probably as substantial as a jump between canon's releases but unless all manufacturers have agreed to slow down their development of digital photographer, the D4 is not going to last as long as the D3.

  18. #58

    Default Re: Am I the only one completely unimpressed with the D4 announcements and samples?

    Which means you are not buying a D4 lah ?

  19. #59

    Default Re: Am I the only one completely unimpressed with the D4 announcements and samples?

    You again!? Hahaha!

    So after so much theory you buying or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by surrephoto View Post
    Hi all. Despite the huge hoohah I've got a feeling that this D4 upgrade is akin to another D3 to D3s transition.....

  20. #60

    Default Re: Am I the only one completely unimpressed with the D4 announcements and samples?

    Incredible Hulk, albeit black and not green.

    Am 1000% sure that a FF camera can be made with half the volume and weight. If Canon can come out with a compact G1X that has an APS-C sensor, why must Nikon still bring forth another dinosaur ? I look forward to the day when a super compact with say 24-120 zoom and a FF sensor will appear and turn those monsters into fossils.

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