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Thread: Ministerial Paycut

  1. #41

    Default Re: Ministerial Paycut

    Quote Originally Posted by rhino123 View Post
    So... which country are you refering to? US? China? India? Thailand? Russia? Which one? and base on what are you referring them to our country?

    I think basically the cut is quite substantial. Think of it this way... a 36% cut to your basic salary, what would it be like?
    if 2.2 million, cut by 36% is S$1408000.. still millions dollar salary. substantial???

    if annual salary is S$30000, cut by 36% is 19200. then CPF 20% is 15360. this is what i call substantial lor.

  2. #42

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    I am sort of a civil servant (except that we dun get $ from MOF). Those in the private sector will never understand how bad they pay lower rank workers like us. We, like you need a job to feed ourselves and our families. Yet whenever we get any amount of bonus, people complain and say we dun deserve a bonus. But hey, don't we need to eat too? Please distinguish between CS and parliamentarians and ministers because they are all different.

    Money goes around, it doesnt fall from the sky. Those working in the banks, don't my annual fee/savings/investment contribute to your salary too? If you work in Sony, don't the money I spend on laptop and camera contribute to your pay? If you work in Cold Storage/guardian/7-11 etc, does your pay fall from the sky? No, I contribute in terms of my purchases. So why harp on tax-payers money? Don't civil servants need to pay taxes too? Did you think we get tax exemptions? For the record, no exemptions n we probably pay as much taxes as you do.. So why do people abuse civil servants all the time?
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  3. #43

    Default Re: Ministerial Paycut

    Quote Originally Posted by Prince Photogenic View Post
    I am sort of a civil servant (except that we dun get $ from MOF). Those in the private sector will never understand how bad they pay lower rank workers like us. We, like you need a job to feed ourselves and our families. Yet whenever we get any amount of bonus, people complain and say we dun deserve a bonus. But hey, don't we need to eat too? Please distinguish between CS and parliamentarians and ministers because they are all different.

    Money goes around, it doesnt fall from the sky. Those working in the banks, don't my annual fee/savings/investment contribute to your salary too? If you work in Sony, don't the money I spend on laptop and camera contribute to your pay? If you work in Cold Storage/guardian/7-11 etc, does your pay fall from the sky? No, I contribute in terms of my purchases. So why harp on tax-payers money? Don't civil servants need to pay taxes too? Did you think we get tax exemptions? For the record, no exemptions n we probably pay as much taxes as you do.. So why do people abuse civil servants all the time?
    Govt pay cut to affect civil servants? you jialat liao.. they increase, you dont get BUT they decrease, u kena

    maybe those ppl struggling outside jealous that u got a iron-rice-bowl while those ppl fought like hell with FT.. living each day with fear of retrenchment, jobless-ness, penniless, shamefulness. not everybody are the same. dun worry
    Last edited by dreaming; 4th January 2012 at 11:46 PM.

  4. #44

    Default Re: Ministerial Paycut

    frankly speaking, do they deserve the payroll???

    Singapore is so small and these super high-end minister can't handle :

    1. Flooding problem (MEWR),
    2. transportation problem MRT breakdown, bus inconsistency problem, cant get a taxi problem, COE, ERP (MOT),
    3. housing problem First timer cant get flat, expensive new hdb flat (MND)
    4. manpower problem playing ard with LEVY n quota ( MOM), healthcare problem on expensive health care bills (MOH)
    5. economic problem like last year 2digits growth, this year single digit maybe technically recession
    6. birth rate problem MND .
    7. jobless problem and cheaper-faster-better theme (NTUC Secretary-general )

    basically the whole agencies didnt gel together to solve prob. they are just watching each other back, keep quiet and swept all problem under the blanket...

    sorry for being blunt..

  5. #45

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    Well said.

  6. #46

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    Yday at cna, a reporter ask why the salary formula relies on gdp and not on the average income of sinkaporeans. Gerad ee said from the beginning it was decided (guess not by his committee) that they work on the basis that high pay is needed to attract talents.

    This is fundamentally wrong. If someone loves $, please go private sector. We need people to SERVE.

    And it is always better for us if policy makers will oneday become commoners like us instead of attaining some god-like status that is not affected by the policies they made.

    And I dont believe a good policy maker must be someone with good acedemic background, instead we need ppl from all walks of life, not just some god like elites, bcos we need them to feel our pain too.

  7. #47
    Senior Member Big Kahuna's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ministerial Paycut

    It's dangerous to think that a commoner can run a gov and a country properly.....because they are common....they tend to fall victim into common mistakes like greed, sex, corruption, power abuse, cronism and bad publicity....you can say that they are many success cases but in little red dot....one small thing can blow out to propotion so imo we cannot afford that

  8. #48
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    Default Re: Ministerial Paycut

    are you trying to say that..
    if they are not "commoner", then they are not subjected to greed , sex, corruption ?

    I think this is a very foolish statement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Kahuna View Post
    It's dangerous to think that a commoner can run a gov and a country properly.....because they are common....they tend to fall victim into common mistakes like greed, sex, corruption, power abuse, cronism and bad publicity....you can say that they are many success cases but in little red dot....one small thing can blow out to propotion so imo we cannot afford that

  9. #49
    Member voxies09's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ministerial Paycut

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Kahuna View Post
    It's dangerous to think that a commoner can run a gov and a country properly.....because they are common....they tend to fall victim into common mistakes like greed, sex, corruption, power abuse, cronism and bad publicity....you can say that they are many success cases but in little red dot....one small thing can blow out to propotion so imo we cannot afford that
    Lol, you are living in medieval where there is commoner and royal blood..
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  10. #50

    Default Re: Ministerial Paycut

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Kahuna View Post
    It's dangerous ....one small thing can blow out to propotion so imo we cannot afford that
    the danger is already here and many things have already been blow out... think MRT, poor people issue, CPF, public house afforability, think CLOB (if u ever buy share long time ago)... , water tank issue (dark water movie theme and something white inside, and something dirty inside), u need to go other shore to read and decide for your own..

    but these issues does not affect those gods people! even those who have retired, they are not affected, because they are too rich... the wealth accumulated can last generations.. who cares abt u n me? hahaha

  11. #51
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    Default Re: Ministerial Paycut

    Quote Originally Posted by dreaming View Post
    frankly speaking, do they deserve the payroll???

    Singapore is so small and these super high-end minister can't handle :

    1. Flooding problem (MEWR),
    2. transportation problem MRT breakdown, bus inconsistency problem, cant get a taxi problem, COE, ERP (MOT),
    3. housing problem First timer cant get flat, expensive new hdb flat (MND)
    4. manpower problem playing ard with LEVY n quota ( MOM), healthcare problem on expensive health care bills (MOH)
    5. economic problem like last year 2digits growth, this year single digit maybe technically recession
    6. birth rate problem MND .
    7. jobless problem and cheaper-faster-better theme (NTUC Secretary-general )

    basically the whole agencies didnt gel together to solve prob. they are just watching each other back, keep quiet and swept all problem under the blanket...

    sorry for being blunt..
    Quote Originally Posted by sfoto100 View Post
    Well said.
    tell me the number of times they got things right?

    i feel a little sad for people working in public sector. when things are going all fine and well, when things are all gay, no one tells them they are doing a good job.

    yet when problems occur, **** quite literally hits the fan for them.
    Last edited by allenleonhart; 5th January 2012 at 09:54 AM.

  12. #52

    Default Re: Ministerial Paycut

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Kahuna View Post
    It's dangerous to think that a commoner can run a gov and a country properly.....because they are common....they tend to fall victim into common mistakes like greed, sex, corruption, power abuse, cronism and bad publicity....you can say that they are many success cases but in little red dot....one small thing can blow out to propotion so imo we cannot afford that
    Power abuse? That's one thing the papayas has done very well... since the 1960s.

    LKY supports polygamy FYI.
    http://www.patriarchywebsite.com/res...y-polygamy.htm
    "And the way the old society did it was by polygamy.

    The successful, whether you’re a scholar, a Mandarin or a successful businessman or successful farmer, you had more than one wife.

    In fact you can have as many as your economic status entitles you or can persuade people to give their daughters up to you.

    We introduced monogamy. It seems so manifestly correct. The West was successful, superior. Why? Because they are monogamous.

    It was wrong. It was stupid."


    The problems we are facing now, is a result of their incompetencies all these years.
    Massive influx of foreign workers => more wear and tear on MRT
    flooding => relevant agencies sitting on their asses thinking SG will never be flooded
    list goes on.

    If you say you need high pay to prevent corruption (even though governments all around the world are paid MUCH less, so they're corrupted?), fine.
    Then, it is more than reasonable for all the citizens to expect you to do a damn fine job of ruling the country. But... to err is human, right? Yes, but what about accountability? "Lets move on" -> is that being accountable to all the tax payers?

  13. #53
    Member voxies09's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ministerial Paycut

    Lol, I tot CS was not allow to discuss politic.. ok guys.. lets move on
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  14. #54

    Default Re: Ministerial Paycut

    Since its a 'service' to the ppl and a 'democracy' here.
    I'm very fair one.
    Also very much in line with 'open market' / 'open to competition' line of thought of the gov.

    Best pay scheme is 'open market' pay scheme.

    Each Minister proposes the pay he/she wants.
    Citizens vote to employ who they think is more worth it

  15. #55

    Default Re: Ministerial Paycut

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Kahuna View Post
    It's dangerous to think that a commoner can run a gov and a country properly.....because they are common....they tend to fall victim into common mistakes like greed, sex, corruption, power abuse, cronism and bad publicity....you can say that they are many success cases but in little red dot....one small thing can blow out to propotion so imo we cannot afford that
    So snotty nose held high nobles from ruling elite should do the thinking of us peasants?
    Commoner??? (what a term)
    This is 2012. End of the world already, not the middle ages...




    Quote Originally Posted by allenleonhart View Post
    tell me the number of times they got things right?

    i feel a little sad for people working in public sector. when things are going all fine and well, when things are all gay, no one tells them they are doing a good job.

    yet when problems occur, **** quite literally hits the fan for them.
    And thats the success of Ministers?
    The success of this country is the success of the people.
    Hardworking and resourceful
    Certain norms are shaped by government (tidy streets; no protests; pretty good infrastructure; etc) but that does not equate success.
    Look at Taiwan, Korea, Japan, HK.
    Not as strict, and not as organized, pretty messy infrastructure and less planned development, but equally if not more successful.
    Climbing out of the devastation of war just 50yrs ago to what they are now. (except HK of course)
    India even more so (gov. is practically ineffectual, mired in politics and red tape); but the ppl have brought it success.
    This is to the credit of the talent of the people, which must be separated from the success/vision of the gov.
    Last edited by pinholecam; 5th January 2012 at 10:29 AM.

  16. #56
    Deregistered allenleonhart's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ministerial Paycut

    Quote Originally Posted by pinholecam View Post
    Certain norms are shaped by government (tidy streets; no protests; pretty good infrastructure; etc) but that does not equate success.
    Look at Taiwan, Korea, Japan, HK.
    Not as strict, and not as organized, pretty messy infrastructure and less planned development, but equally if not more successful.
    Japan The Lost Decade

    Taiwan's Corruption, along with their ex-president

    Korea's constant threat from the North

    Inflation in HK and Housing Woes


    these are really just a few major problems, which i could probably list more. apart from what HK has (which we only have to a smaller degree), the rest is almost non-existent in sg.

    may i ask what is your definition of success then? because i don't exactly know what u are bench marking against.
    Last edited by allenleonhart; 5th January 2012 at 11:12 AM.

  17. #57
    Moderator rhino123's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ministerial Paycut

    Quote Originally Posted by dreaming View Post
    if 2.2 million, cut by 36% is S$1408000.. still millions dollar salary. substantial???

    if annual salary is S$30000, cut by 36% is 19200. then CPF 20% is 15360. this is what i call substantial lor.
    So... what do you think is reasonable for the pay of our ministers and MP? S$10000 per month?

    Yes, Singapore's ministers pay is the highest in the world, but that is basically the salary and salary alone, what other benefit, now and when they retire would they be getting.

    For US president and minister or cabinet, their salary might be much lower than Singapore's ministers, but they can influence the world... and after retirement (especially their president) with the network they built, they can make millions or billions from this network, do Singapore had that type of capability? You need money to attract people to work in the ministry.
    Last edited by rhino123; 5th January 2012 at 12:02 PM.
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  18. #58
    Senior Member Big Kahuna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lkkang
    are you trying to say that..
    if they are not "commoner", then they are not subjected to greed , sex, corruption ?

    I think this is a very foolish statement.
    My answer is "generally yes" as they have too much too loose vs someone who has nothing to loose

  19. #59
    Senior Member Big Kahuna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by voxies09

    Lol, you are living in medieval where there is commoner and royal blood..
    Irony isn't it? Look around u.....they are so many ah sia kia around, if u go north, there are so many rajas and tengkus driving with badge number plate, need to beware with those single digit number plate.....zooming pass with their sport car will not get summon ticket....... even first world Europe also not spared with so many prince and princess filling the tabloids column every other day

  20. #60
    Member voxies09's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ministerial Paycut

    but in 1 point in time, they were commoner just like us.. so give the commoner a chance to improve
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