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Thread: Pls advise on camera..

  1. #1

    Default Pls advise on camera..

    Hi,

    I currently own the Pentax KX w Tamron 28-75 f2.8.
    I find it too bulky & heavy.

    Therefore decided to switch the compact DSLR or four-thirds. I duno what u call it.
    I was in loved with the J1 when I saw it but when I hands on picture quality seems very bad.
    Then I tried Nex 5N & C3, I love the picture quality.

    Can anyone advise what other cameras is close to the NEX..?
    I will be using it kit.. Don't intend to buy more other accessories.

    Thanks..

  2. #2
    Moderator rhino123's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pls advise on camera..

    Quote Originally Posted by joycegian View Post
    Hi,

    I currently own the Pentax KX w Tamron 28-75 f2.8.
    I find it too bulky & heavy.

    Therefore decided to switch the compact DSLR or four-thirds. I duno what u call it.
    I was in loved with the J1 when I saw it but when I hands on picture quality seems very bad.
    Then I tried Nex 5N & C3, I love the picture quality.

    Can anyone advise what other cameras is close to the NEX..?
    I will be using it kit.. Don't intend to buy more other accessories.

    Thanks..
    First... NEX and J1/V1 is not four thirds. They are mirrorless interchangeable lens systems. Four-thirds are never a mirrorless interchangeable lens system, it is one of the DSLR system from Olympus... micro 4/3 is a mirrorless interchangeable lens system like NEX and J1/V1... however it had a sensor size that is smaller than the NEX and bigger than a J1/V1 camera.

    For mirrorless interchangeable lens systems, you can check out -

    Sony's NEX (APS-C size sensor) - NEX-C3, NEX-5n
    Samsung's NX/ N200 (APS-C size sensor)
    Olympus/ Panasonic's m4/3 cameras - GX1, GH3, G3, EP3, E-PL3, E-PM1 (m4/3 size sensor)
    Pentax Q (very small sensor)
    Nikon's J1/V1 (bigger sensor as compared to the Pentax Q but smaller than the m4/3 sensor)
    Leica M9 rangefinder (bloody expensive)

    Actually you would also need to ask yourself what you are looking for in your mirrorless options... and which genre of photography you are into... and what budget. Also look at what you user interface, ergonomy and stuff like that works for you.
    I am not a photographer, just someone who happened to have a couple of cameras.
    My lousy shots

  3. #3

    Default Re: Pls advise on camera..

    Quote Originally Posted by rhino123 View Post
    First... NEX and J1/V1 is not four thirds. They are mirrorless interchangeable lens systems. Four-thirds are never a mirrorless interchangeable lens system, it is one of the DSLR system from Olympus... micro 4/3 is a mirrorless interchangeable lens system like NEX and J1/V1... however it had a sensor size that is smaller than the NEX and bigger than a J1/V1 camera.

    For mirrorless interchangeable lens systems, you can check out -

    Sony's NEX (APS-C size sensor) - NEX-C3, NEX-5n
    Samsung's NX/ N200 (APS-C size sensor)
    Olympus/ Panasonic's m4/3 cameras - GX1, GH3, G3, EP3, E-PL3, E-PM1 (m4/3 size sensor)
    Pentax Q (very small sensor)
    Nikon's J1/V1 (bigger sensor as compared to the Pentax Q but smaller than the m4/3 sensor)
    Leica M9 rangefinder (bloody expensive)

    Actually you would also need to ask yourself what you are looking for in your mirrorless options... and which genre of photography you are into... and what budget. Also look at what you user interface, ergonomy and stuff like that works for you.
    Hi Rhino,

    Thank you for your reply.
    Pardon me as I am very new to this mirrorless interchangable lens system.

    So is APS-C sensor better or m4/3 sensor better?
    I prefer shooting people & landscape. Budget wise, 1k +.

  4. #4
    Moderator rhino123's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pls advise on camera..

    Quote Originally Posted by joycegian View Post
    Hi Rhino,

    Thank you for your reply.
    Pardon me as I am very new to this mirrorless interchangable lens system.

    So is APS-C sensor better or m4/3 sensor better?
    I prefer shooting people & landscape. Budget wise, 1k +.
    Really no such thing as which sensors are better than the other. The thumb of rule - the bigger the sensor the better the performance at high ISO... less noise and cleaner images. For people shots... if you do alot of these shots in darker environment whereby flashes are not allow, you might be better off with a bigger sensor (APS-C size sensor) mirrorless camera - NEX and Samsung's NX/ N series came into mind. If you are doing it mostly on brightly lit area (daytime and stuff like that) a m4/3 sensor camera is good enough... btw, GX1 is going off at pretty okay price.

    As for landscape, both the APS-C and M4/3 can do the job and both are pretty good at doing that job.

    So like I have mentioned before it all boils down to your own preference. For 1k+... both m4/3 mirrorless and APS-C mirrorless are within your budget and since both can do the job well... you would need to ask yourself this,

    1) Ergonomy of the cameras - design of grip (or lack of grip), layout of the scroll wheels, buttons, etc, and the sensitivity of the touch screen (or lack of one).
    2) Menu User Interface (which one suits you better).
    3) Availability of lenses and other equipments
    4) AF speed (some camera boasts to have the fastest AF speed, was it really needed for you)
    5) Weigh (anyway, all of them weighed almost the same, but the distribution of that weigh could be a deciding factor to you).

    Hope it helps.

    Happy hunting.
    I am not a photographer, just someone who happened to have a couple of cameras.
    My lousy shots

  5. #5

    Default Re: Pls advise on camera..

    Quote Originally Posted by joycegian View Post
    Hi,

    I currently own the Pentax KX w Tamron 28-75 f2.8.
    I find it too bulky & heavy.

    Therefore decided to switch the compact DSLR or four-thirds. I duno what u call it.
    I was in loved with the J1 when I saw it but when I hands on picture quality seems very bad.
    Then I tried Nex 5N & C3, I love the picture quality.

    Can anyone advise what other cameras is close to the NEX..?
    I will be using it kit.. Don't intend to buy more other accessories.

    Thanks..
    If you like the pictures from NEX 5N and C3, why do you have to consider other models? The more models you consider, the more confusion you have.
    D200

  6. #6

    Default Re: Pls advise on camera..

    If you go for NEX, just take note that the size of the lenses are still rather big (about the same size as your Kx lenses if not bigger), though they are pretty light.
    Small lenses are mainly the manual focus (MF) rangefinder ones which you need an adapter to use.
    Its better at high ISO by perhaps 1 to 1.5 stops over m4/3 but you need to question yourself on what is acceptable.
    Better dynamic range too, but if you shoot JPG or don't PP your photos much, you won't make use of this advantage as much.


    m4/3 cameras are pretty small and light with small native lenses (with AF).
    I have a G3, and its certainly adequate for most needs.

    I remember you first got your camera to take photos for your child.
    Very doable on a m4/3 camera.





    You mention streets and people :
    No problem with that too....





    Image quality :
    Not a problem (This is a 1/4 crop from the original 16mp file on the G3 with 20/1.7)




    Sorry, no landscapes from me. I leave that mainly to my DSLR.
    but other m4/3 uses have toured the world with one.
    http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/land-...rless-pen.html
    http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/land-...cake-zoom.html

  7. #7
    Member Valkarian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pls advise on camera..

    personally i prefer dslr, but as many before have said, its really up to which one can perform in your comfort zone. a DSLR is alot more user friendly and versatile to me, but alot bulkier, albeit professional looking. (doesnt mean micro 4/3 is inferior) but if you like a camera with interchangable lens, imo, might as well go with a dslr.
    Canon 600D / EF 70-200 f2.8 L USM / EF 50 f1.8 II

  8. #8
    Senior Member edutilos-'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Pls advise on camera..

    I am not sure if you can find a mirrorless interchangeable lens system equivalent of the K-x paired with 28-75 F/2.8. But I'm not very interested in that market, so I could be wrong - perhaps you might have to compromise by having a few primes. I don't think there is any good way to overcome the weight that comes with such a lens.

    I was going to suggest an ultrawide + normal prime instead of the 28-75 F/2.8, but it doesn't seem that heavy...

  9. #9

    Default Re: Pls advise on camera..

    Quote Originally Posted by edutilos- View Post
    I am not sure if you can find a mirrorless interchangeable lens system equivalent of the K-x paired with 28-75 F/2.8. But I'm not very interested in that market, so I could be wrong - perhaps you might have to compromise by having a few primes. I don't think there is any good way to overcome the weight that comes with such a lens.

    I was going to suggest an ultrawide + normal prime instead of the 28-75 F/2.8, but it doesn't seem that heavy...

    The K-x works really bad under low light.
    At night, its almost useless.
    But I do admit in the day, I love it paired with the 28-75 f2.8.

    But bcos of the weight & bulkiness I decided to switch to a mirrorless.

    I dun wished to get anymore accessories.
    I just want to kit to work well for me under low light and in e day.

    I know nuts about mirrorless camera.
    And only managed to hands on Sony C3, 5N & Nikon J1, V1.

    So was asking if any own a mirrorless which works very well for them as kit.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Pls advise on camera..

    pinholecam :

    How's the GX1.?

  11. #11
    Senior Member edutilos-'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Pls advise on camera..

    Quote Originally Posted by joycegian View Post
    The K-x works really bad under low light.
    At night, its almost useless.
    For focusing? Or?

    If it's focusing, then I guess it's best to check with people who've tried both the K-x and mirrorless offerings to see if they can provide a rough sense of comparison.

    If it's high ISO noise levels, then I think that'd limit your choices quite a bit, not many mirrorless offerings outperform K-x...
    Last edited by edutilos-; 3rd January 2012 at 03:35 PM.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Pls advise on camera..

    Quote Originally Posted by edutilos- View Post
    For focusing? Or?
    Focusing.
    So if it cant focus, it cant take any pictures.

    Even if it can take pictures, itll b slow shutter & pics will be blur.

    Like I said I dont want to spend more on other accessories.

    Hope you guys can help. LOL

  13. #13
    Senior Member edutilos-'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Pls advise on camera..

    Quote Originally Posted by joycegian View Post
    Focusing.
    So if it cant focus, it cant take any pictures.

    Even if it can take pictures, itll b slow shutter & pics will be blur.

    Like I said I dont want to spend more on other accessories.

    Hope you guys can help. LOL
    Not sure what kind of lighting conditions you are facing, or what focus mode you are using...

    But slow shutter is a matter of selection of ISO and aperture to overcome this - if you are using ISO3200 and F/2.8 and you are still having issues then there is no choice, any camera will have slow shutter problems and no magic solution to this, save flash.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Pls advise on camera..

    Im using Olympus EP3, i find tt that at iso 1000-1250 the pics are still acceptable but any high will not work for me. The EP3 can customized most of the buttons, it has a fast focus, and the touch screen tap and shoot function is great great for streets.

    did try the sony nex at courts for a brief moment, don really like digging through the menu to find stuff.

    I find the J1 and V1 is a little over priced. maybe due to the fact tt it can use most of the nikon lens with a adapter and yet keep the AF function.

    Jus my 2 cent

  15. #15

    Default Re: Pls advise on camera..

    Quote Originally Posted by joycegian View Post
    The K-x works really bad under low light.
    At night, its almost useless.
    But I do admit in the day, I love it paired with the 28-75 f2.8.

    But bcos of the weight & bulkiness I decided to switch to a mirrorless.

    I dun wished to get anymore accessories.
    I just want to kit to work well for me under low light and in e day.

    I know nuts about mirrorless camera.
    And only managed to hands on Sony C3, 5N & Nikon J1, V1.

    So was asking if any own a mirrorless which works very well for them as kit.

    In low light, every camera AF will struggle in low contrast.
    Its not brand or camera type dependent and perhaps a bit better with really high end professional line cameras (eg. 7D; D3 ) which have a more sensitive AF module.
    You have to focus on an area that has better contrast.
    Even with the so claimed 'world's fastest AF' on the current EP3 and G3, GX1 m4/3 cameras using contrast detect AF, if you point the AF area on an area without contrast, the cameras can't focus (in low light or bright sunshine).
    Eg.
    So if you focused on the persons cheeks (all flesh color), the camera will not focus. If you focused on an area with the eye and flesh color (ie. black eye, brows, etc against a flesh color), it will.

    Its a 'known' issue on any camera.
    http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/gener...e-culprit.html


    Anyway, I guess you want a layman answer and a bottom line to the question.
    So my few cents :
    1. Learn about how to AF in low light (ie. focus on areas of contrast)
    2. Yes, a m4/3 camera is lighter and smaller
    3. You will need good fast prime lenses for m4/3 to use these camera at its best (esp. in low light) and work round its poorer ISO performance in those conditions
    4. Luckily, the primes mentioned in #3 are pretty cheap and should cost you about $1300 for a set of 3 nice lenses (14/2.5; 20/1.7; 45/1.8)



    Quote Originally Posted by joycegian View Post
    pinholecam :

    How's the GX1.?
    You got to know what you are getting into with a GX1.
    GX1 = no EVF (can attach a separate one, but you need to buy one at additional cost)
    You can also look at Olympus with its EP3 and EPL3
    It also means holding and shooting it like a pns camera so be prepared for a usage change.

    I can't say for certain how the GX1 performs since I don't have it, but it should be rather similar to the G3 since they have a rather similar sensor.

    Reviews are pretty preliminary at the moment for the GX1.
    You can do a google for review if they are avaliable.
    Last edited by pinholecam; 3rd January 2012 at 05:26 PM.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Pls advise on camera..

    Quote Originally Posted by joycegian View Post
    Focusing.
    So if it cant focus, it cant take any pictures.

    Even if it can take pictures, itll b slow shutter & pics will be blur.

    Like I said I dont want to spend more on other accessories.

    Hope you guys can help. LOL
    the main limitation of the K-X in low light is the lack of an AF-assist lamp. but even with an AF assist lamp, AF will not be as fast as in daytime.

    as for slow shutter speed, it goes back to the fundamentals of photography - there needs to be enough light. ISO has to be high enough, aperture has to be large enough, shutter speed has to be slow enough. high ISO = more noise. large aperture = shallow DOF. slow shutter speed = motion blur. there's always a trade-off so that, to me, is not really an equipment problem,,,

    so by switching to a nex or a micro 4/3 camera, u'll just be solving the weight problem but not necessarily the low-light AF problem or low-light image quality problem. i don't find the nex very "small" though... a beer-can sized lens on a small camera body just looks weird to me.

    maybe u can swing by the sony sub forum to ask them how the nex is in low light? hear it first-hand from users. they might have some insights

  17. #17

    Default Re: Pls advise on camera..

    so basically TS is looking for a camera with superb AF even in low-light conditions, coupled with great ISO performance and awesome handling... and all in a compact body

    hmm.

    correct me if i'm wrong, but that just hasn't arrived on earth yet

  18. #18

    Default Re: Pls advise on camera..

    x100 lor.
    or the next gen interchangable x100.

    or go for a RF type cam like ricoh gxr with m mount

  19. #19

    Default Re: Pls advise on camera..

    Quote Originally Posted by IsenGrim View Post
    x100 lor.
    or the next gen interchangable x100.

    or go for a RF type cam like ricoh gxr with m mount
    i think TS might find the fixed focal length of the X100 a bit limiting, even though the sensor is the same size as her current DSLR.

    and the GXR A12 Mount is totally not suitable for TS. they are all manual focus lenses.

  20. #20
    Moderator rhino123's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pls advise on camera..

    To TS... at lowlight condition, I think it would be better if you manual focus, rather than try to autofocus.

    However, for bulkiness... yeah... traditional DSLR is bulkier and can be a hassle if you are not used to the size. The mirrorless camera is a good way to reduce the bulk. I think, it would be better if you would go down to the shop and try out these cameras that we have mentioned, to see if it works for you.
    I am not a photographer, just someone who happened to have a couple of cameras.
    My lousy shots

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