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Thread: Breakdown on North-South MRT Line

  1. #261

    Default Re: Breakdown on North-South MRT Line

    Quote Originally Posted by cws77 View Post
    Hmmmm .... Then was the privatization of public transport as good a thing as the govt said???? Nowadays customers seem to have an "obligation" to earn profits for public transport companies.... I really dun know wat to say about the govt ...so I shut up at this point where should priorities lie???? I guess different people have different answers .....
    Railroads have always been by nature natural monopolies anyway. Talk about competition in the transport sector has always been a joke.

  2. #262
    Deregistered allenleonhart's Avatar
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    Default Re: Breakdown on North-South MRT Line

    Quote Originally Posted by NazgulKing View Post
    Railroads have always been by nature natural monopolies anyway. Talk about competition in the transport sector has always been a joke.
    in countries like china, railroads are never monopolies... more of oligopoly. it depends on the size of the market and the geographical boundaries...

    also, the reason why transport in SG could be natural monopoly is that the setup cost is high (setting up tracks). what we did, was to seperate the non-competitive and competitive parts aside. government builds the stations, we let the operation part be privatised, hence both smrt and SBS transit operates certain lines.
    leading to a duopoly.

    same as starhub and singtel. one could argue that telcoms are natural monopolies, because of high startup costs such as fixed line installations. but we have around 3 major telcoms, with starhub and singtel having both fixed lines. the mobile system can be better competed, due to lower barriers to entry. and it was a good thing, breaking the singtel monopoly.

  3. #263
    Moderator diver-hloc's Avatar
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    Default Re: Breakdown on North-South MRT Line

    Quote Originally Posted by cws77 View Post
    Hmmmm .... Then was the privatization of public transport as good a thing as the govt said???? Nowadays customers seem to have an "obligation" to earn profits for public transport companies.... I really dun know wat to say about the govt ...so I shut up at this point where should priorities lie???? I guess different people have different answers .....

    You might no believe this... but its somewhat true. If SMRT is still govt own... could you think how much of your tax paying dollars will have to go yearly to support the system ??

    Scuba & Father... For Life

  4. #264
    Senior Member ZerocoolAstra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Breakdown on North-South MRT Line

    Quote Originally Posted by diver-hloc View Post
    You might no believe this... but its somewhat true. If SMRT is still govt own... could you think how much of your tax paying dollars will have to go yearly to support the system ??
    I can't quite agree with this part though.
    At the moment, SMRT is running its portion of the train network (using equipment paid for by taxpayers) and essentially making a large profit. I can't quite see how, the moment it becomes government-owned, it would suddenly become a tax burden to the nation, assuming the organization stays largely the same.
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  5. #265
    Moderator diver-hloc's Avatar
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    Default Re: Breakdown on North-South MRT Line

    Quote Originally Posted by ZerocoolAstra View Post
    I can't quite agree with this part though.
    At the moment, SMRT is running its portion of the train network (using equipment paid for by taxpayers) and essentially making a large profit. I can't quite see how, the moment it becomes government-owned, it would suddenly become a tax burden to the nation, assuming the organization stays largely the same.

    Which is why the word... "Somewhat" is infront of the true.

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  6. #266
    Senior Member ZerocoolAstra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Breakdown on North-South MRT Line

    I am in favour of such basic service providers (eg. transport, utilities, etc) being essentially 'not-for-profit'.
    I don't think they should end up becoming a huge tax burden to the nation, but neither should they be profit-generating for a small group of shareholders. Ideally it should be some middle-ground.

    if a service provider can afford to do this

    http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7144/6...3b66c12a4f.jpg


    i really question their moral direction
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  7. #267
    Moderator diver-hloc's Avatar
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    Default Re: Breakdown on North-South MRT Line

    The moment a company is listed in the stock market.... 'Moral' isn't too high in the shareholders mind.

    And btw... the Photo is from a company D&D... is giving the workers a good time for one night in the whole year so wrong ?? Are workers from SMRT suppose to not enjoy ourselves during D7D ??

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  8. #268
    Deregistered allenleonhart's Avatar
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    Default Re: Breakdown on North-South MRT Line

    Quote Originally Posted by diver-hloc View Post
    Which is why the word... "Somewhat" is infront of the true.
    i'm in favour of nationalisation though... the MRT and bus systems are our backbone transport system. needa keep them as affordable as it can be.

    i'm feeling the pinch from the adult fares already, considering my income is extremely low.

  9. #269
    Member Deyeno's Avatar
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    Default Re: Breakdown on North-South MRT Line

    Quote Originally Posted by diver-hloc View Post
    This part is really correct... something which S'poreans need to understand...

    Each train cost anything from 10-12 million dollars and you don't buy extra train just to store them in a warehouse... each train is custom built by a overseas company and you can't just buy one from the parking lots outside the factory. Each train need a year or so to be assembly and at least 6 mths or more of testing locally before they are put into service... if you order 20 train... the factory won't be build all 20 at the same time... maybe just 3-4. So, when SMRT/LTA order 20 new trains.. from biding, agreeing on the train spec, building and testing... it will take as long as 5 years before all 20 train make it here !! You not get one single train till at least the second year... and no more than 2 or 3 will be delivered every 5-6 month.

    A train officer need at least 5 mth of training... 2 mth in class with the rest of the time on OJT. You'll then have to pass a written and oral exam. The basic pay is nothing to talk about... you work 7 type of shift, work most weekend and public holidays. A class of 20 normally end up with half that number as trainee quit to look for greener pasture. Those that pass, within 2 years... maybe only half will stay... the others will quit because they can't handle the shift or working condition.. also, the low starting pay doesn't helps. Which is why the latest group of trainees are bonded to discourage them from quitting right after training.

    Therefore... when S'porean open their mouths and ask.. ''why can't just buy more trains and employed more workers''... non of you knows how difficult it is to ''just do this or that''. If there is not enough train to drive... no point to have extra employee sitting around. You need 20-30 worker... no way can you tell how many would still be around when the trains are here...

    And all LTA have to said is.... ''we need extra train service because S'porean is complaining''

    I totally agree with you on this, as the normal person on the street doesnt understand what is required, BUT both the government and SMRT have touted the MRT as World Class, so the normal person in the street, expects nothing less.

    You cant just snap your fingers and more trains magically appear with fully trained staff.

    In respect to the Oilfield having redundant systems, I was meaning here, that SMRT just cant shut down sections of tracks, for more rigorous maintenance inspections or repairs, because you have no way to reroute the trains.

    On an Oil Rig, NOT all systems have redundancy, such as the Top Drive or Drawworks, but if they break down and Drilling Stops, its loss of production, then big problems for the operator if it cant be fixed ASAP. If this happens, it could lead to the current day rate for the RIG not being paid which could be anywhere from 100K to 750K per day depending on the size of the rig. So nothing is spared when it comes to maintenance of essential equipment, as the financial loss is not worth it.

    You could of course shut down sections of tracks between stations, but what happens then, how to help the passengers or causing more road congestion due to adding buses to ferry people between stations. Imagine trying to shutdown any of the major interchanges.

    Just MAYBE, when ALL the circle lines are complete, this may allow for more maintenance on the aging systems but cant the present system wait another 3 to 4 years.

    Cheers ....

  10. #270
    Moderator diver-hloc's Avatar
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    Default Re: Breakdown on North-South MRT Line

    Quote Originally Posted by allenleonhart View Post
    i'm in favour of nationalisation though... the MRT and bus systems are our backbone transport system. needa keep them as affordable as it can be.

    i'm feeling the pinch from the adult fares already, considering my income is extremely low.

    You are not alone on this... when I started working for SMRT, we have yet to issue shares. At that time, we considered ourselves as abit like civil servant. Profit isn't too important as long as train service runs smoothly. But it all changes once we are listed in the stock market... changes for both good and bad.

    As an employee... before the changes. Alot of my colleagues ACT like civil servant... just coasting at their job. There is little to no employee personal performance report... every year you get a fix pay increase even if you s**k at your work. Alot of 'old birds' just take MC like heaven owe it to them. But ever since SAW came... if you can't preform, you are axed. If you can't work as expected of you... prepare to get no bonus or pay increases... but if you work, bonus and increases are assured.

    Therefore, while I don't really care if SAW stay or go (only talk to her once in all my time there)... some of her working style is better than before her coming... at least old timer can't stay around and boss us just because of how long their service was...

    Scuba & Father... For Life

  11. #271

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    Quote Originally Posted by allenleonhart
    i'm in favour of nationalisation though... the MRT and bus systems are our backbone transport system. needa keep them as affordable as it can be.

    i'm feeling the pinch from the adult fares already, considering my income is extremely low.
    Understand your problem. But it will over soon for u when u r out from school n get rich.. Hope u wont forget this experience....

    I really feel sad for those with low salary, transport is so expensive for them... A big portion of salary....

  12. #272
    Senior Member ZerocoolAstra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Breakdown on North-South MRT Line

    Quote Originally Posted by diver-hloc View Post
    You are not alone on this... when I started working for SMRT, we have yet to issue shares. At that time, we considered ourselves as abit like civil servant. Profit isn't too important as long as train service runs smoothly. But it all changes once we are listed in the stock market... changes for both good and bad.

    As an employee... before the changes. Alot of my colleagues ACT like civil servant... just coasting at their job. There is little to no employee personal performance report... every year you get a fix pay increase even if you s**k at your work. Alot of 'old birds' just take MC like heaven owe it to them. But ever since SAW came... if you can't preform, you are axed. If you can't work as expected of you... prepare to get no bonus or pay increases... but if you work, bonus and increases are assured.

    Therefore, while I don't really care if SAW stay or go (only talk to her once in all my time there)... some of her working style is better than before her coming... at least old timer can't stay around and boss us just because of how long their service was...
    Yeah what you described would be a terrible situation too... if nobody was motivated to do the best job they could do.
    Seems like there's no happy compromise.
    Exploring! :)

  13. #273
    Deregistered allenleonhart's Avatar
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    Default Re: Breakdown on North-South MRT Line

    Quote Originally Posted by sfoto100 View Post
    Understand your problem. But it will over soon for u when u r out from school n get rich.. Hope u wont forget this experience....

    I really feel sad for those with low salary, transport is so expensive for them... A big portion of salary....
    being a construction worker doesn't bring in much money so.... yea. it is expensive.

  14. #274
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    Default Re: Breakdown on North-South MRT Line

    Quote Originally Posted by ZerocoolAstra View Post

    if a service provider can afford to do this

    i really question their moral direction
    For your information, she drives a Ferrari. Typical price of one of the models $1,175,750 (without COE)


    Last edited by ricohflex; 10th January 2012 at 09:35 PM.

  15. #275
    Member 9V-Orion Images's Avatar
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    Default Re: Breakdown on North-South MRT Line

    Quote Originally Posted by ricohflex View Post
    For your information, she drives a Ferrari. Typical price of one of the models $1,175,750 (without COE)
    Sorry, how does driving a Ferrari influence the appraisal of one's moral compass?
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  16. #276
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    Default Re: Breakdown on North-South MRT Line

    Please direct question to correct person. I am just telling you she drives a Ferrari.
    Last edited by ricohflex; 10th January 2012 at 09:47 PM.

  17. #277
    Moderator diver-hloc's Avatar
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    Default Re: Breakdown on North-South MRT Line

    Quote Originally Posted by ricohflex View Post
    Please direct question to correct person. I am just telling you she drives a Ferrari.

    Which has what to do regarding the 'Moral Direction' question ??

    Scuba & Father... For Life

  18. #278

    Default Re: Breakdown on North-South MRT Line

    by saying that about Moral Direction, it's like saying that all people who drive luxury sports cars have something wrong with their moral compass.

    there's nothing wrong with driving a ferrari.

  19. #279

    Default Re: Breakdown on North-South MRT Line

    Quote Originally Posted by 9V-Orion Images View Post
    Sorry, how does driving a Ferrari influence the appraisal of one's moral compass?
    burning more fuel, giving out more CO2

    morally upset

    Compare Car MPG (Fuel Consumption) & Emissions

  20. #280
    Senior Member Sion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Breakdown on North-South MRT Line

    Quote Originally Posted by dreaming View Post
    burning more fuel, giving out more CO2

    morally upset

    Compare Car MPG (Fuel Consumption) & Emissions
    I think there is a gold-plated compass in every Ferrari.

    It's good for the Chi and hence enhancing the high moral values of the drivers.

    The Ferrari designers once went to China to consult with the Feng Shui masters.

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