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Thread: Breakdown on North-South MRT Line

  1. #241
    Moderator diver-hloc's Avatar
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    Default Re: Breakdown on North-South MRT Line

    Quote Originally Posted by Deyeno View Post
    As I outlined in a previous post, the system is aging, ridership increasing, more trains than 24 years ago, so more breakdowns will happen. You can bet LTA will find fault with the records they have requested and put the blame entirely on SMRT, which could have merit, as its been stated in this thread and numerous media articles, the SAW did manage to LOSE ALL the people whom had the knowledge required to run a train system.

    Believe me... we have brought up problems to management years ago... but when our bosses goes to see their bosses... what do you think the likely answer is... there are stories we hear and know that I can't tell without risking my job. But lets just said that if you are unable to keep cost down and work under the increase demand.... ''The Front Gate Is Always Open''.

    Btw... I think this is true for most big organization... the bearer of bad news gets the chop. Top Management don't like to hear why you can't do the job.. but how you can get the job done.
    Last edited by diver-hloc; 9th January 2012 at 07:29 PM.

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  2. #242
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    Default Re: Breakdown on North-South MRT Line

    Quote Originally Posted by diver-hloc View Post
    Believe me... we have brought up problems to management years ago... but when our bosses goes to see their bosses... what do you think the likely answer is... there are stories we hear and know that I can't tell without risking my job. But lets just said that if you are unable to keep cost down and work under the increase demand.... ''The Front Gate Is Always Open''.

    Btw... I think this is true for most big organization... the bearer of bad news gets the chop. Top Management don't like to hear why you can't do the job.. but how you can get the job done.
    Just curious.. are u working in some engineering/maintenance department in smrt? What u said sound very familiar

  3. #243
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    Default Re: Breakdown on North-South MRT Line

    Quote Originally Posted by diver-hloc View Post
    Believe me... we have brought up problems to management years ago... but when our bosses goes to see their bosses... what do you think the likely answer is... there are stories we hear and know that I can't tell without risking my job. But lets just said that if you are unable to keep cost down and work under the increase demand.... ''The Front Gate Is Always Open''.

    Btw... I think this is true for most big organization... the bearer of bad news gets the chop. Top Management don't like to hear why you can't do the job.. but how you can get the job done.
    Is it true that there are already issues with the claws of the third rail which SMRT maintenance engineers have long identified and an external third party engineering consultation firm was actually engaged to investigate and provide an effective solution or workaround, but instead of adhering to the recommendations brought forth by the external third party engineering consultation firm in their report, SMRT management actually decided to follow through with a less costlier invalidated in-house solution instead that somehow just prolonged the inevitable?

    Could this also be the reason on why Ms. Saw was given the axe so rapidly despite reassuring to the public that she will not step down earlier?
    Last edited by 9V-Orion Images; 9th January 2012 at 08:08 PM.
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  4. #244
    Moderator diver-hloc's Avatar
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    Default Re: Breakdown on North-South MRT Line

    Quote Originally Posted by watsup View Post
    Just curious.. are u working in some engineering/maintenance department in smrt? What u said sound very familiar

    No... but my department work closely with them... we also have many friends from other departments... that why we always get to hear ''cry father, cry mother'' stories. Like the old saying goes... nothing spreads faster than bad news.

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  5. #245
    Member Deyeno's Avatar
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    Default Re: Breakdown on North-South MRT Line

    Quote Originally Posted by diver-hloc View Post
    Believe me... we have brought up problems to management years ago... but when our bosses goes to see their bosses... what do you think the likely answer is... there are stories we hear and know that I can't tell without risking my job. But lets just said that if you are unable to keep cost down and work under the increase demand.... ''The Front Gate Is Always Open''.

    Btw... I think this is true for most big organization... the bearer of bad news gets the chop. Top Management don't like to hear why you can't do the job.. but how you can get the job done.

    I dont envy your position, working under this much stress, but I have been there, done that and its true, if you cant cope, "The Front Gate Is Always Open''. Even now many companies are profit orientated and are always looking at ways to reduce costs and sadly Maintenance is always the first to suffer budget cuts on spares and manpower. but you are expected to preform regardless. (side note, in some situations like this, maintenance is cut, but management, front office manpower increases)

    So now SMRT faces the problem how to solve this puzzle, while walking the tightrope, to please the investors and the public at the same time.

    So you end getting caught between the rock and the wall.

    In the Oilfield you find this all the time, and when you are working 24/7/365 you cant afford breakdowns, but you normally have some redundancy, but in this particular situation SMRT has none. That is the major problem facing SMRT now, they just cant shutdown sections of track to do more thorough maintenance checks or repairs without creating problems for everyone.

    It will be an interesting few months with all the enquiries happening and see the blame game playout.

    Cheers ....

  6. #246
    Member watsup's Avatar
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    Default Re: Breakdown on North-South MRT Line

    Quote Originally Posted by diver-hloc View Post
    No... but my department work closely with them... we also have many friends from other departments... that why we always get to hear ''cry father, cry mother'' stories. Like the old saying goes... nothing spreads faster than bad news.
    I see... i used to know someone working in safety department previously as well and was told some stories

  7. #247
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    Default Re: Breakdown on North-South MRT Line

    Quote Originally Posted by Deyeno View Post
    I dont envy your position, working under this much stress, but I have been there, done that and its true, if you cant cope, "The Front Gate Is Always Open''. Even now many companies are profit orientated and are always looking at ways to reduce costs and sadly Maintenance is always the first to suffer budget cuts on spares and manpower. but you are expected to preform regardless. (side note, in some situations like this, maintenance is cut, but management, front office manpower increases)

    So now SMRT faces the problem how to solve this puzzle, while walking the tightrope, to please the investors and the public at the same time.

    So you end getting caught between the rock and the wall.

    In the Oilfield you find this all the time, and when you are working 24/7/365 you cant afford breakdowns, but you normally have some redundancy, but in this particular situation SMRT has none. That is the major problem facing SMRT now, they just cant shutdown sections of track to do more thorough maintenance checks or repairs without creating problems for everyone.

    It will be an interesting few months with all the enquiries happening and see the blame game playout.

    Cheers ....
    If you are a frequent Dilbert reader, there's a strip that illustrate the concept of Project Triangle from an engineering and marketing management perspective respectively extremely well. Couldn't find it though.
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  8. #248
    Moderator diver-hloc's Avatar
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    Default Re: Breakdown on North-South MRT Line

    Quote Originally Posted by 9V-Orion Images View Post
    Is it true that there are already issues with the claws of the third rail which SMRT maintenance engineers have long identified and an external third party engineering consultation firm was actually engaged to investigate and provide an effective solution or workaround, but instead of adhering to the recommendations brought forth by the external third party engineering consultation firm in their report, SMRT management actually decided to follow through with a less costlier invalidated in-house solution instead that somehow just prolonged the inevitable?

    This part is not 'fully' correct... but nothing more can I said. Already, a colleague of mine was 'told' to shut his micro blog by the company for saying/writing too much. I have enough colleagues in CLUBSNAP that could ID me as it is..

    Its better if you all ar the full story from the official Investigation Team.

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  9. #249

    Default Re: Breakdown on North-South MRT Line

    we should stop digging diver-hloc

  10. #250

    Default Re: Breakdown on North-South MRT Line

    Quote Originally Posted by diver-hloc View Post
    They do... but the 1st rule is that the system as a whole, can't stop passenger service. Any check could only be done between the time of 1am-4:30am.... that is 3+hr a night. With over 80+Km of tracks and rails... how much do you think could be check for 3hr a night. If something is found to be wrong with a part of the track at 3:25am... no way it could do repair till tomorrow night because all maintenance jobs must be finish by 4:30am and vehicles to return to depot by 5am... the track must be cleared before the 1st passenger train goes for service at 5:20am.

    LTA is trying hard to wash the dirt from their hands... by me and my co-workers felt that they are also partly at fault for what is happening now, with their policy to push for greater ridership on an aging system...
    your rational is quite identical to post #78 wor

  11. #251

    Default Re: Breakdown on North-South MRT Line


  12. #252

    Default Re: Breakdown on North-South MRT Line

    Quote Originally Posted by diver-hloc View Post
    If LTA agree... of course no problem. The very problem is when nothing happens, LTA won't want to be the one being blame for shorting train service hour. Every once in awhile... letter will appear at HQ or Straits Time Forum from S'porean who demand/request that train service be extended till 2-3am... not trying to find excuse for SMRT... but you won't believe the balancing act SMRT have to do between LTA's demand of increasing service due to population grown, passengers demand for longer service hour, shortage of manpower willing to work 7 shift (train side) and on weekend and public holidays... and lets not forget SMRT is a listed company... shareholder not care about you but how much they can get back....
    Is the shortage because SMRT is not willing to pay more or?

    The way I see it is this. Engineering has reached a sad state in Singapore. LTA is probably staffed with people who spend more time looking at spec sheets rather that doing any kind of real engineering. SMRT's problem (and probably SBS), is lack of engineering manpower due to either it cannot find staff, or because they don't want to pay enough.

    Either way, someone has to ****ing come up and fix the damn system because finger point will do us no good at all.

  13. #253

    Default Re: Breakdown on North-South MRT Line

    it is a matter of time that we fail in the hands of Engineering... the very Fundamentals that build the world today

    Engineering is the discipline, art, skill and profession of acquiring and applying scientific, mathematical, economic, social, and practical knowledge, in order to design and build structures, machines, devices, systems, materials and processes.

  14. #254
    Moderator diver-hloc's Avatar
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    Default Re: Breakdown on North-South MRT Line

    Quote Originally Posted by Deyeno View Post
    In the Oilfield you find this all the time, and when you are working 24/7/365 you cant afford breakdowns, but you normally have some redundancy, but in this particular situation SMRT has none. That is the major problem facing SMRT now, they just cant shutdown sections of track to do more thorough maintenance checks or repairs without creating problems for everyone.

    It will be an interesting few months with all the enquiries happening and see the blame game playout.

    This part is really correct... something which S'poreans need to understand...

    Each train cost anything from 10-12 million dollars and you don't buy extra train just to store them in a warehouse... each train is custom built by a overseas company and you can't just buy one from the parking lots outside the factory. Each train need a year or so to be assembly and at least 6 mths or more of testing locally before they are put into service... if you order 20 train... the factory won't be build all 20 at the same time... maybe just 3-4. So, when SMRT/LTA order 20 new trains.. from biding, agreeing on the train spec, building and testing... it will take as long as 5 years before all 20 train make it here !! You not get one single train till at least the second year... and no more than 2 or 3 will be delivered every 5-6 month.

    A train officer need at least 5 mth of training... 2 mth in class with the rest of the time on OJT. You'll then have to pass a written and oral exam. The basic pay is nothing to talk about... you work 7 type of shift, work most weekend and public holidays. A class of 20 normally end up with half that number as trainee quit to look for greener pasture. Those that pass, within 2 years... maybe only half will stay... the others will quit because they can't handle the shift or working condition.. also, the low starting pay doesn't helps. Which is why the latest group of trainees are bonded to discourage them from quitting right after training.

    Therefore... when S'porean open their mouths and ask.. ''why can't just buy more trains and employed more workers''... non of you knows how difficult it is to ''just do this or that''. If there is not enough train to drive... no point to have extra employee sitting around. You need 20-30 worker... no way can you tell how many would still be around when the trains are here...

    And all LTA have to said is.... ''we need extra train service because S'porean is complaining''

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  15. #255
    Moderator diver-hloc's Avatar
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    Default Re: Breakdown on North-South MRT Line

    Quote Originally Posted by NazgulKing View Post
    Is the shortage because SMRT is not willing to pay more or?

    Good question... ask yourself this question...

    If you are the CEO...

    * If you rise pay... it must be across the board. Not just for a small group of worker or you risk worker getting angry.
    * If its across the board... then it wil cut into your profit.
    * You could then do 2 thing...
    * Rise fare or pay your shareholder less.
    * Rise fare = Singaporean not happy.
    * Pay less = Shareholders not happy

    Then how... ??

    Scuba & Father... For Life

  16. #256
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    Default Re: Breakdown on North-South MRT Line

    Quote Originally Posted by ArchRival View Post
    My guess is that this is not a coincidence. And it is not only because CID has got good investigative skills. The 1st word of the acronym in CID is Criminal.
    Last edited by ricohflex; 10th January 2012 at 12:02 AM.

  17. #257
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    Default Re: Breakdown on North-South MRT Line


    YouTube Video ID No. ME75QH6PHU8

    Today's parliamentary hearing pertaining to the December 2011 SMRT train disruptions.


    YouTube Video ID No. E3XSC3OSYHM

    Main highlight.
    Last edited by 9V-Orion Images; 9th January 2012 at 11:04 PM.
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  18. #258

    Default Re: Breakdown on North-South MRT Line

    Quote Originally Posted by diver-hloc View Post
    This part is really correct... something which S'poreans need to understand...

    Each train cost anything from 10-12 million dollars and you don't buy extra train just to store them in a warehouse... each train is custom built by a overseas company and you can't just buy one from the parking lots outside the factory. Each train need a year or so to be assembly and at least 6 mths or more of testing locally before they are put into service... if you order 20 train... the factory won't be build all 20 at the same time... maybe just 3-4. So, when SMRT/LTA order 20 new trains.. from biding, agreeing on the train spec, building and testing... it will take as long as 5 years before all 20 train make it here !! You not get one single train till at least the second year... and no more than 2 or 3 will be delivered every 5-6 month.

    A train officer need at least 5 mth of training... 2 mth in class with the rest of the time on OJT. You'll then have to pass a written and oral exam. The basic pay is nothing to talk about... you work 7 type of shift, work most weekend and public holidays. A class of 20 normally end up with half that number as trainee quit to look for greener pasture. Those that pass, within 2 years... maybe only half will stay... the others will quit because they can't handle the shift or working condition.. also, the low starting pay doesn't helps. Which is why the latest group of trainees are bonded to discourage them from quitting right after training.

    Therefore... when S'porean open their mouths and ask.. ''why can't just buy more trains and employed more workers''... non of you knows how difficult it is to ''just do this or that''. If there is not enough train to drive... no point to have extra employee sitting around. You need 20-30 worker... no way can you tell how many would still be around when the trains are here...

    And all LTA have to said is.... ''we need extra train service because S'porean is complaining''
    So the bottomline, as I suspected as one of the many fundamental faults of our transport system is: we have decided in the name of efficiency and profits to run our transport system on such a shoestring that when the string snaps, there's nothing to hold it together. The notion of the hub and spoke system works on the premise that everything works all the time. The minute something breaks, that hub is totally cut off from the system and there is almost nothing to compensate.

  19. #259

    Default Re: Breakdown on North-South MRT Line

    Quote Originally Posted by diver-hloc View Post
    Good question... ask yourself this question...

    If you are the CEO...

    * If you rise pay... it must be across the board. Not just for a small group of worker or you risk worker getting angry.
    * If its across the board... then it wil cut into your profit.
    * You could then do 2 thing...
    * Rise fare or pay your shareholder less.
    * Rise fare = Singaporean not happy.
    * Pay less = Shareholders not happy

    Then how... ??
    Then it is high time the government and the transport corporations come out and be transparent on the system and quit the nonsensical political playbook they indulge in all the ****ing time.

  20. #260

    Default Re: Breakdown on North-South MRT Line

    Quote Originally Posted by diver-hloc View Post
    Good question... ask yourself this question...

    If you are the CEO...

    * If you rise pay... it must be across the board. Not just for a small group of worker or you risk worker getting angry.
    * If its across the board... then it wil cut into your profit.
    * You could then do 2 thing...
    * Rise fare or pay your shareholder less.
    * Rise fare = Singaporean not happy.
    * Pay less = Shareholders not happy

    Then how... ??
    Hmmmm .... Then was the privatization of public transport as good a thing as the govt said???? Nowadays customers seem to have an "obligation" to earn profits for public transport companies.... I really dun know wat to say about the govt ...so I shut up at this point where should priorities lie???? I guess different people have different answers .....

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