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Thread: Should Photography be Illegal?

  1. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by popeye
    where you got this information from?
    I have never seen such a rule when taking MRT.
    Only those $1000 fine thingy when you eat inside the MRT.
    Those binding terms and conditions are not 'loudly' displayed. Such extensive terms and conditions, liability, etc are usually found on a large panel/s in the public area, immediately outside the station control room. Whether such t and c includes 'no photography', I have no idea.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by reachme2003
    We are talking about different kind of guards. Mayank's attempted robbery involves an armed Cisco guard. Such guards are supposedly well trained in robbery scenarios, whether armed or otherwise, involving hostage situations, etc. The kind of guards stationed at condos, some commercial buildings and malls, etc are generally less educated and not well trained. They are more the 'eyes and ears'. Some of them thinks they are the 'law'.
    Hahaha! Ok I get what you mean... you are talking about those unarmed guards with generic badges and suspect ranks with beer bellies. Yup, those are the kinds who make up their own laws.

    Quote Originally Posted by reachme2003
    On a related subject, how does the anti-hijack mechanism of a Cisco van works?
    I dunno... maybe they have the nifty flame thrower underneath the vehicle that ignites any would be hijackers, like those invented in india.

  3. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by yqt
    A few years ago I was doing a shoot for HP on one of their roadshows in a shopping ctr. In order to get a shot of the overview of the whole place with the crowd and stage I went to the 3rd level. As soon as I've frame my shot, a security guard stop me from shooting and ask me what I'm doing. I explained myself and show him my "offical photographer" tag from HP, he than ask me for my name card and IC. I gave them to him and you know what he told me? " You're not allowed to take pictures here. Get back down to the groung floor where you belong or eles I'll have you removed from the building" and he make sure he said this in a loud voice so that everyone there can hear it. I was fuming mad. I went down to the ground floor and inform my client of what happen and I can't get the shot he wanted. My client was hopping mad. He got hold of the A & P manager of the shopping ctr and make her come down to the shopping ctr from her home ( it was a Sunday evening ).
    When the A & P manager came down the guard was ask to go home by the boss of the security agency.
    If something like this happen to you, control your anger, walk away and after that talk to the one in charge. If you're not happy with his respond, talk to his boss. Usually it is the people on the groung who make up their own "laws" just because they feel they have the power behind the badge. People on the higher level knows better.
    Actually, are you obliged to give him your IC? Or let him retain it in such situation, if it happened. Perhaps, showing it to him is 'showing cooperation'.

  4. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zplus
    Hahaha! Ok I get what you mean... you are talking about those unarmed guards with generic badges and suspect ranks with beer bellies. Yup, those are the kinds who make up their own laws.



    I dunno... maybe they have the nifty flame thrower underneath the vehicle that ignites any would be hijackers, like those invented in india.
    or they will throw out bags and bags of sharp nails hoping to burst the tyres of would-be hijackers' car. he he.

  5. #45

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    Oh, I've met a few guards like that. Yesterday, when I'm checking a lens I'm buying from a fellow CS'er, (at open air location between Tampines MRT & DBS building - nearer to DBS building) immediately when I put the lens on the camera body, the guard appears telling us not to photograph (point at) at the building (DBS). It is 7:30pm and I told him I'm just checking the lens and the building lights is brighter. At least he smile and is polite. I've met some shouting guards before too. I think these are the only chance they can "pull rank" (chance to have power). Just take it easy and need not get angry.

  6. #46
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    Seems like I am quite lucky. So far those security guards who appoarch me are very polite and friendly.

    One thing for sure,

    if they are polite, I will cooperate.
    if they shout, I will report it to their manager.
    if they are vey rude and dare to touch my camera, I will kill them
    寒冰不能斷流水 枯木亦會再逢春

  7. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by yqt
    I don't think there is any law that prevents anyone from taking a shot ( with a camera not a gun OK!!!! ) of a building from a public place in general, execpt maybe stat board or gov building. If it is a private building, the security guards have no rights to stop you if you're shooting from outside the building. The security guards can't stop you as you're not in their place of responsibilty, but if you're within the compound, they have every right as it may be the instruction pass down from the management of the place.
    I once tried to shoot a condo from the outside but did not realise that I'm still within their compound ( along their driveway ), the guard told me to stop saying the management said so. But as usual, he was rude and loud, I just walk a few feet to my right and shoot from the public walkway next to the road. He tried to stop me again and I told him with a smile "I'm not inside your property so you have no right to tell me what to do. This is a public area and if you don't leave me alone, I'll inform your management, your boss and the police that you're harressing me." The supervisor came and told the guard to go back to the guard room, said sorry to me, and ask if he could know why I'm taking a shot of the condo. I told him I'm doing it for a housing agent friend who is marketing a unit there. He said thank you with a smile and wish me a good day and went about his business.
    As I've said in my earlier post, people on the ground are the ones going around making their own "laws", those higher up knows better.
    Interesting thread going on ... was not aware until today ... me an employee of a Stat board and once I was taking photo at the lobby, while waiting for people, prior to going for an event. The security guards insisted that no one can take photo in the building, even after I explained that I was a staff showed my staff pass, and that there was no rules against taking photos in the building ... I did really bother about him and went my way, and snapping again soon after that ... wat is so sensitive about the lobby anyway ... think that it was really strange for him to insist on stopping me after I identified myself ... if the staff is determined to undermine the building, he/she does not need a camera to do that ... people should start thinking on their feet instead of sticking to rules ...

  8. #48

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    haha, after reading, i now understand why most Pros got a good P&S camera.... And, i will be more careful when shooting (with Camera) next time in buildings and on the shoot, but.. haha. my camera is just a good P&S camera !!

  9. #49
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    Hmmmm.... Wonder any CSer here work as a security guard. hee hee
    寒冰不能斷流水 枯木亦會再逢春

  10. #50
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    I mean, well, some of us are into architectural shoots. Its ok if a government building is involved (but why do they make some govt buildings SO NICE?! ARGH!!!), most of us, having been thru NS would know about such things (especially if u're of a higher rank).

    But then, being stopped for shooting at a school or commercial building? I know this terrorist thing is around and we might be mistakened for terrorist scouts. But go figure (obviously those security guards dun even figure it out), if we ARE indeed terrorist scouts for some terrorist organisations, would we even be using a DSLR with a wide angle or a telephoto zoom lens to 'scout' the area? Shldn't we (as terrorist scouts) be as inconspicious as possible?

    If all those security guards keep claiming about 'top secret' stuff even inside a commercial arts building (like the Esplanade like someone mentioned), I suggest all buildings come shielded with a Force and Electromagnetic Field to zap every single film and digital camera once they are turned on within a 10mile radius.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by fuzzy
    i hate security guards... never had a good experience with them. Most would try to threaten and scold. I wonder how good they are in stopping a crime in action...
    If u're talking about armed security guards (a'la Cisco), they are really good in their jobs.

    If u're talking about those private security firms with unarmed security guards, I honestly doubt their effectiveness at crime-busting (other den to provide a human presence) and stopping terrorists.

    Like they always do in the movies, the unarmed security guard always gets the first headshot or gets his neck broken by ninja-like terrorists/commandos.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkForce
    Hmmmm.... Wonder any CSer here work as a security guard. hee hee
    Hahaha... I used to be an RP guarding an installation. Does it count?

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsbn
    If u're talking about armed security guards (a'la Cisco), they are really good in their jobs.

    If u're talking about those private security firms with unarmed security guards, I honestly doubt their effectiveness at crime-busting (other den to provide a human presence) and stopping terrorists.

    Like they always do in the movies, the unarmed security guard always gets the first headshot or gets his neck broken by ninja-like terrorists/commandos.
    Wow, u see too much movie liao. What about attack /eaten by Alien ? hee hee
    寒冰不能斷流水 枯木亦會再逢春

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsbn
    Hahaha... I used to be an RP guarding an installation. Does it count?
    You must be one of those guard who approach the subject and ask

    "Hi , nice camera. How much hur ? You from CS ? Can I try ?"
    寒冰不能斷流水 枯木亦會再逢春

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    It can be quite irritating at times.Just on a sidenote, the police at Parliament House are quite professional and they do not really intrude on people taking shots of the whole building.I wish our dear security guards would think more with their common sense.But don't be too harsh on them and you don't really have to pick a fight with them, they're also trying to earn a living too you know..

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    learn to develop stealth dont always hang your camera out, put it into your bag whip it out shoot, put it back in.
    people always assume that you are some goverment person or some PI when you shoot with an slr, at least thats my experience, you could either put on your best charms and smile, schmooze your way thru, or put on an accent and just walk away, sumi masu sumi masu arigato, sayonara...sucker.
    i was in kl and shooting there was such a joy, people are really relaxed there, and would smile for you.
    people here are too weary too stuck up, too up tight, too pretentious.
    we should loosen up

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkForce
    You must be one of those guard who approach the subject and ask

    "Hi , nice camera. How much hur ? You from CS ? Can I try ?"
    Yah. How u noe har?

  18. #58
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    It pays if u exlude a professional air of self-confidence, radiance and charisma.

    Ppl would think that u're an award-winning photographer! Hahaha...

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsbn
    Yah. How u noe har?
    Simple, if I am in your shoe, I will do the same too.
    寒冰不能斷流水 枯木亦會再逢春

  20. #60

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    Dear Mr Low

    I refer to your e-mail of 9 Dec 2004 and 5 Jan 2005.

    We note that the e-mail dated 9 Dec 2004 was addressed to the MCYC Feedback
    Unit.

    We would like to inform you that the police does not provide legal advice
    to the public. You may wish to seek legal advice from a lawyer.

    As regards the photograph of the Police Officer sleeping in the Police car,
    we have been in touch with Mr Lawrence Quek who provided us the information
    and feedback. We have expressed our appreciation to him for bringing the
    matter to our attention. The Police does not condone such misconduct and
    appropriate action will be taken against the Police Officer concerned.


    Thank you and best regards


    Paul Tan
    for Quality Service Manager
    Singapore Police Force
    ----------------------------------------------------------------



    I'm not sure why I haven't received any reply on this matter,


    furthermore, it has come to my knowledge that recently (this week) mrbrown
    of www.mrbrown.com was apparently told by police or isd to remove pictures
    he posted of cops caught napping in a patrol car.


    so to add to my list of questions, what about photography of police and
    other security personel with and without their knowledge?


    I believe one of the key initiatives of the PS21 is a response of some sort
    within 3 days, considering that my request was made on 9 Dec, it certainly
    taking a long time in coming.


    thank you
    Christopher Low

    ----------------------------------------------------------------


    There are a couple of discussions going on on law and photography.

    if you're interested, the pertinent discussions are here.

    http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?t=101732



    What is the legal position of photography (for non press photographer)in
    the following scenarios?

    a) non famous people in the street
    b) famous people
    c) famous people in an event organised by the building owner
    d) famous people in an event organised by a tenant of the building.
    e) government buildings (not military, but civil, eg: hdb hub, MAS, the
    new
    supreme court etc)
    f) of the MRT train, of MRT stations, or of people inside the MRT trains
    g) of private buildings (from the roadside)
    h) are there places where it is illegal to use a photographic tripod?
    i) scene of an accident (eg: car crash)


    in otherwords, in which situations do you need a model release, in which
    situations are you legally NOT allowed to take pictures. in which
    situations are you legally allowed to take pictures for private
    consumption
    (ie: not for general publication)

    It would be nice to have the information on the police website as well.

    ---
    Next Issue, the law and nude photography.

    a) there are certain statutes against obscenity, but at what point does
    art
    becomes obscenity. a search of the statutes does not bring out any items
    relating to pornography (just obscenity)



    b) distribution of such works. what kind of distribution is allowed?
    (print/private invitation gallery, public gallery, shopping center )

    c) which parts of the body are "forbidden" (is there a criteria for
    different sorts of audience, eg: R(A), M18 etc)

    d) what if for private consumption?


    my definition of course is that if sexual arousal is the sole defining
    merit of the work.

    http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?t=104580

    of course, this has some relevancy to the steve chia case, if the maid
    wasn't under aged, would there have been any charges at all?

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