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Thread: kenrockwell; fixed lenses == better pictures?

  1. #41
    Senior Member UncleFai's Avatar
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    Default Re: kenrockwell; fixed lenses == better pictures?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vinnievinyl View Post
    A simple question of do we have to think before snap to get good pictures end up everyone have their own interpretation of what was originally intended...

    Me very simple, this subject allow me to take my time to think, recompose, because it stay there "for me" for 10 mins. So I think lor!




    This one, I got no time to think, only "try to it see in the viewfinder" and press the button.



    This two pictures of mine are just to let you know when I think and when I don't, I know they are very lousy quality so don't complaint hor!
    GREAT SHOTS!

  2. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by edutilos-

    Nope.

    I have seen photographers who have shot the same thing for 40 years, they have had experience but they have not seemed to assimilate anything from that experience.

    I have also seen photographers who have shot the same thing for 40 years, and whoa, they are really good at what they do.

    Experience doesn't equate to thinking, but experience can train one to be conditioned as to how to think, and this quickens and short-circuits the process. An experienced, thinking photographer is going to be one that excels at his genre.
    Sorry pal, wrong channel..
    I am only referring to moments that we almost have not enough time to remove lens cap type of senarios.. Like a kid climbing up a playground ladders.. Or a ball going almost into the back of the net where we can't even frame it fast enough.. These type..
    i only replies to PM and nothing else..

  3. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by allenleonhart

    stay at the baby pool and swim then... thats all i can say
    I don't need your suggestion dude..
    Rofl..
    i only replies to PM and nothing else..

  4. #44
    Senior Member edutilos-'s Avatar
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    Default Re: kenrockwell; fixed lenses == better pictures?

    Quote Originally Posted by sense rain View Post
    I am only referring to moments that we almost have not enough time to remove lens cap type of senarios.. Like a kid climbing up a playground ladders.. Or a ball going almost into the back of the net where we can't even frame it fast enough.. These type..
    The same applies.

    Kid climbing up playground ladders - believe you me, photographers or people who work with kids can generally predict their behaviour. Of course it's not going to be puppet master level, but I highly doubt that a highly experienced child photographer would not have anticipated that moment and removed his lens cap already. The thinking doesn't necessarily happen at the moment of the snap, but BEFORE.

    The same applies to ball in the net scenario. Please feel free to correct my terminology as I am no soccer/football fan, but if the striker is pushing forward aggressively, or the ball is hoovering near the goalpost, certainly a good sports photographer would be ready to get that moment?

    You need not be a professional photographer doing the job to think before the moment and be prepared in advance. I agree that not every moment can be predicted, the point I'm trying to make is that thought and experience and many other factors do play a part in ensuring that one gets good pictures.

    If you read up on how street photographers anticipate funny moments before they happen, position themselves to create laughable moments due to juxtaposition of totally separate elements, etc, you might understand better what I'm getting at. I don't think that Matt Stuart (in-public street photographer) simply clicks non-stop or starts to fumble for his lens caps before the scene falls into place. He already has the scene culminating in his mind, he just needs to wait for it to happen. And he may not be always right! But he's ready, and more often than not, I'm sure he is.

    MATT STUART | PHOTOGRAPHER | SHOOTS PEOPLE
    MATT STUART | PHOTOGRAPHER | SHOOTS PEOPLE
    MATT STUART | PHOTOGRAPHER | SHOOTS PEOPLE
    MATT STUART | PHOTOGRAPHER | SHOOTS PEOPLE

    Here's an excerpt from an interview with another street photographer, I've quoted the relevant part below: http://www.markushartel.com/blog/abo...t-photographer

    Q:How do you find your subjects?

    A: Good street photography requires good observation skills and reaction. For that reason, the better photographs "happen" when my mind is free and I have time to switch to “photography mode”. “Class A” pictures definitely have people in them. On a good day, I have my eyes ten to twenty feet ahead and watch for something to happen.
    I'm sure some will take the viewpoint that street photography is not the same as sports or kids (the examples you have brought up), I take the viewpoint that life is life, you can't control others, only yourself. So the ball, the kid, the man on the street, his dog, those are factors not within your control, but you can position yourself, get ready to shoot, lift up the camera beforehand. And that plays a part.

    Anyways, I believe that I've taken the trouble to address your points, it is up to you to show the basic respect to consider mine and give an honest heartfelt reply. This isn't really a war where one party has to win or come on top - the idea of exchange is to communicate and allow for both parties to understand each other's viewpoints - some views are really just a position with no basic explanation at the end of it all, and that's acceptable. Cheers.
    Last edited by edutilos-; 6th February 2012 at 02:41 PM.

  5. #45
    Senior Member sinned79's Avatar
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    Default Re: kenrockwell; fixed lenses == better pictures?

    to be a successful photographer, you must be able to anticipate your subjects well especially if its not a arranged shoot.

    u can try street photography to train yourself to anticipate.
    Last edited by sinned79; 6th February 2012 at 02:36 PM.

  6. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by edutilos-

    The same applies.

    Kid climbing up playground ladders - believe you me, photographers or people who work with kids can generally predict their behaviour. Of course it's not going to be puppet master level, but I highly doubt that a highly experienced child photographer would not have anticipated that moment and removed his lens cap already. The thinking doesn't necessarily happen at the moment of the snap, but BEFORE.

    The same applies to ball in the net scenario. Please feel free to correct my terminology as I am no soccer/football fan, but if the striker is pushing forward aggressively, or the ball is hoovering near the goalpost, certainly a good sports photographer would be ready to get that moment?

    You need not be a professional photographer doing the job to think before the moment and be prepared in advance. I agree that not every moment can be predicted, the point I'm trying to make is that thought and experience and many other factors do play a part in ensuring that one gets good pictures.

    If you read up on how street photographers anticipate funny moments before they happen, position themselves to create laughable moments due to juxtaposition of totally separate elements, etc, you might understand better what I'm getting at. I don't think that Matt Stuart (in-public street photographer) simply clicks non-stop or starts to fumble for his lens caps before the scene falls into place. He already has the scene culminating in his mind, he just needs to wait for it to happen. And he may not be always right! But he's ready, and more often than not, I'm sure he is.

    MATT STUART | PHOTOGRAPHER | SHOOTS PEOPLE
    MATT STUART | PHOTOGRAPHER | SHOOTS PEOPLE
    MATT STUART | PHOTOGRAPHER | SHOOTS PEOPLE
    MATT STUART | PHOTOGRAPHER | SHOOTS PEOPLE

    Here's an excerpt from an interview with another street photographer, I've quoted the relevant part below: http://www.markushartel.com/blog/abo...t-photographer

    I'm sure some will take the viewpoint that street photography is not the same as sports or kids (the examples you have brought up), I take the viewpoint that life is life, you can't control others, only yourself. So the ball, the kid, the man on the street, his dog, those are factors not within your control, but you can position yourself, get ready to shoot, lift up the camera beforehand. And that plays a part.

    Anyways, I believe that I've taken the trouble to address your points, it is up to you to show the basic respect to consider mine and give an honest heartfelt reply. This isn't really a war where one party has to win or come on top - the idea of exchange is to communicate and allow for both parties to understand each other's viewpoints - some views are really just a position with no basic explanation at the end of it all, and that's acceptable. Cheers.
    Hey pal, ok ok.. Ur point is correct up to the level you type.. Not wrong at all.. Very cool seriously for the effort you made.. But maybe you never encounter that this particular kid who never climb ladder before and suddenly start climbing ladder just for that instant.. Or how about the baby first step.. That first step is only 1 in his life time.. Just once.. And after that step, he will fall.. And the next step won't be his first step any more.. Right.. So no matter how experience I might be.. Or how much effort i prepared.. I won't be able to snap it unless I am spontaneous enough.. Cos the baby first step could happens between 10mths to god knows maybe 24 months..

    I am not trying to make black into white.. Just some instant.. Very very little maybe.. That a shot is forced off the shutter without us processing..

    No matter how experience I could be.. I think I will never anticipate a goal kick by a goalie could land into the back of the net.. If this happens, we can only frame it without thinking of any others.. I suppose.. Cos the ball travel at the speed over the field could be over in 2 secs maybe.. I also not sure cos I don't play soccer..

    Of cos I agreed.. What you type.. And the links your provide.. And your patience in explaining kindly..

    Cheers..
    i only replies to PM and nothing else..

  7. #47
    Senior Member edutilos-'s Avatar
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    Default Re: kenrockwell; fixed lenses == better pictures?

    Quote Originally Posted by sense rain View Post
    Hey pal, ok ok.. Ur point is correct up to the level you type.. Not wrong at all.. Very cool seriously for the effort you made.. But maybe you never encounter that this particular kid who never climb ladder before and suddenly start climbing ladder just for that instant.. Or how about the baby first step.. That first step is only 1 in his life time.. Just once.. And after that step, he will fall.. And the next step won't be his first step any more.. Right.. So no matter how experience I might be.. Or how much effort i prepared.. I won't be able to snap it unless I am spontaneous enough.. Cos the baby first step could happens between 10mths to god knows maybe 24 months..

    I am not trying to make black into white.. Just some instant.. Very very little maybe.. That a shot is forced off the shutter without us processing..
    Yep, I agree that there are just those few shots that turn out great despite instinctive snapping without any perceivable thought.

    Cheers, and thanks for reading.

  8. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by sinned79
    to be a successful photographer, you must be able to anticipate your subjects well especially if its not a arranged shoot.

    u can try street photography to train yourself to anticipate.
    I tried hard to find a picture of Luis suarez kicking Scott parker by the dozen of pro photographer from last night match.. Still no.luck yet.. The footage was caught on video.. So now I learn a lesson.. Switch to video mode if I anticipate that my buffer and fps will not be good enough. I am not joking here. I am pretty sure later a print will come from a video clip soon. That was really a pretty tough shot to nail as suarez just came back from a 9 match ban. And I think no one will assume he will make that kick..
    i only replies to PM and nothing else..

  9. #49

    Default Re: kenrockwell; fixed lenses == better pictures?

    Quote Originally Posted by edutilos- View Post
    Oh no, people who get good photographs of kids and sports are just people who anyhow click away and go "Wowee" when they hit a winner.

    Same for Henri-Cartier Bresson, he just wear Leica on his neck and anyhow press randomly and pray that he has good shots when he's home, since similarly, got no time to think for people on the street, and can't predict what they do either.
    Interesting thing I read about HC Bresson - Apparently his camera leaves a narrow white margin around the frame, and he always develops his film with the margin in to show that he never crops his shot.

    Re the topic of thinking, I would say that sometimes there's really no time to think, but in general I'd say that anticipation (and therefore thinking) is very important. Especially so when using rangefinders and other manual focus systems because I'm not sure how many of us can focus in under 0.5 seconds (I probably cannot), so anticipating what will happen next is important.
    Last edited by pbear1973; 7th February 2012 at 07:03 AM.
    Stuff I'm reasonably proud of: http://www.flickr.com/photos/ctky1973/

  10. #50
    Senior Member sinned79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sense rain View Post
    I tried hard to find a picture of Luis suarez kicking Scott parker by the dozen of pro photographer from last night match.. Still no.luck yet.. The footage was caught on video.. So now I learn a lesson.. Switch to video mode if I anticipate that my buffer and fps will not be good enough. I am not joking here. I am pretty sure later a print will come from a video clip soon. That was really a pretty tough shot to nail as suarez just came back from a 9 match ban. And I think no one will assume he will make that kick..

    if u are able to anticipate well, u can find yourself switching fast in every situation. i am a very anticipative person as described by my boss and during my 4 sessions of interviews before I got my job. My boss tells me, u seems to have an answer prepared in your brain for everything b4 I ask you!
    Last edited by sinned79; 7th February 2012 at 08:28 AM.

  11. #51
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    Default Re: kenrockwell; fixed lenses == better pictures?

    I think everyone is not on the same thinking platform. Getting the shot is not equal to getting THE shot. Be it zoom lense or prime lense, one still have to think.

    Just an example for the baby's 1st step. If you know that you wanted to get your baby's 1st step, you would have start your preparation earlier. Theres nothing wrong with setting your camera to auto mode. That itsself is already a thinking process, You would have thought that maybe with your skill, you would have a better chance in getting a better image that to try to do manual settings. Others would want more than just an image, they want a perfect photo of that 1st step. You would have prepared your camera, charged up the batteries, load in film or CF/SD cards, attached a lense to the camera, ect etc and wait for the day your baby is ready to start walking. I have 3 kids and believe me, kids just dont start to walk overnight. Unfortunately, I pick up photography way after my kids start to run so no shots of their 1st step.


    Shooting nature, we have to do our homework, read up on the subjects (the species of bird), their migration season and to some extend even their migration path like the raptors migration where thousands of raptors are to be seen flying over the sky. We have to think of our trip, where to shoot from and also the time of the day where the angle of the sun is. I seriously dont think auto mode can solve these at all. No known camera have any function that tell you all these stuff. In auto mode you also need to do exposure compensation so that itself is thinking. Bright and dark subject in the same lighting will yield different exposure.

    So those who want just the shot and for those who want THE shot, you decide for yourself. No right nor wrong as long as all are happy with their results.

  12. #52
    Deregistered allenleonhart's Avatar
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    Default Re: kenrockwell; fixed lenses == better pictures?

    Quote Originally Posted by sense rain View Post
    I don't need your suggestion dude..
    Rofl..
    i did not suggest. i merely stated an observation

    photography is more than just pressing the shutter and praying for the best. check out magnum photos if you really want to know how to get the moment. they have their own ways of doing it, instead of putting it all to luck and say that they don't need to think.
    Last edited by allenleonhart; 7th February 2012 at 12:06 PM.

  13. #53
    Senior Member sinned79's Avatar
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    Default Re: kenrockwell; fixed lenses == better pictures?

    Quote Originally Posted by sense rain View Post
    I tried hard to find a picture of Luis suarez kicking Scott parker by the dozen of pro photographer from last night match.. Still no.luck yet.. The footage was caught on video.. So now I learn a lesson.. Switch to video mode if I anticipate that my buffer and fps will not be good enough. I am not joking here. I am pretty sure later a print will come from a video clip soon. That was really a pretty tough shot to nail as suarez just came back from a 9 match ban. And I think no one will assume he will make that kick..
    btw, u are also wrong in giving this example. i am not a liverfools fan but i know suarez was out for very long. hence if u are a photographer there, you will peel your eyes on him more often then anything else, trying to anticipate what he is going to do (score a goal or foul anybody) when he comes back from his match ban. while at the same time keep an observation for the rest of the match.

    i believe you have not google hard enough for the photos. it probably may appear later if you haven found any yet.

    http://soccernet-assets.espn.go.com/...er_275x155.jpg From soccernet, Getty images

    From dailymail (Good for Ian Hodgson to anticipate this coming!)
    Last edited by sinned79; 7th February 2012 at 12:56 PM.

  14. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by sinned79

    btw, u are also wrong in giving this example. i am not a liverfools fan but i know suarez was out for very long. hence if u are a photographer there, you will peel your eyes on him more often then anything else, trying to anticipate what he is going to do (score a goal or foul anybody) when he comes back from his match ban. while at the same time keep an observation for the rest of the match.

    i believe you have not google hard enough for the photos. it probably may appear later if you haven found any yet.

    http://soccernet-assets.espn.go.com/...er_275x155.jpg From soccernet, Getty images

    From dailymail (Good for Ian Hodgson to anticipate this coming!)
    This shot was maybe 0.5 secs too late.. As the pic should show the stud landing on Scott body.. But a screen shot from video will surface sooner or later.. Just like Jose mourinho smacking some assistant coach head was also derive from video..

    But you are right that my search was done soon after it happened.. So maybe that pic is not surface yet..
    i only replies to PM and nothing else..

  15. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by allenleonhart
    i did not suggest. i merely stated an observation

    photography is more than just pressing the shutter and praying for the best. check out magnum photos if you really want to know how to get the moment. they have their own ways of doing it, instead of putting it all to luck and say that they don't need to think.
    Yup, just follow rules/laws..
    i only replies to PM and nothing else..

  16. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeSwitch
    I think everyone is not on the same thinking platform. Getting the shot is not equal to getting THE shot. Be it zoom lense or prime lense, one still have to think.

    Just an example for the baby's 1st step. If you know that you wanted to get your baby's 1st step, you would have start your preparation earlier. Theres nothing wrong with setting your camera to auto mode. That itsself is already a thinking process, You would have thought that maybe with your skill, you would have a better chance in getting a better image that to try to do manual settings. Others would want more than just an image, they want a perfect photo of that 1st step. You would have prepared your camera, charged up the batteries, load in film or CF/SD cards, attached a lense to the camera, ect etc and wait for the day your baby is ready to start walking. I have 3 kids and believe me, kids just dont start to walk overnight. Unfortunately, I pick up photography way after my kids start to run so no shots of their 1st step.

    Shooting nature, we have to do our homework, read up on the subjects (the species of bird), their migration season and to some extend even their migration path like the raptors migration where thousands of raptors are to be seen flying over the sky. We have to think of our trip, where to shoot from and also the time of the day where the angle of the sun is. I seriously dont think auto mode can solve these at all. No known camera have any function that tell you all these stuff. In auto mode you also need to do exposure compensation so that itself is thinking. Bright and dark subject in the same lighting will yield different exposure.

    So those who want just the shot and for those who want THE shot, you decide for yourself. No right nor wrong as long as all are happy with their results.
    Absolutely.. I just need the moment..
    I got 2 only.. One started in school.. The other one not yet.. But after all these posting.. I think I will switch to video mode.. Don't want to miss it should I be around to view it..
    i only replies to PM and nothing else..

  17. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by sinned79

    if u are able to anticipate well, u can find yourself switching fast in every situation. i am a very anticipative person as described by my boss and during my 4 sessions of interviews before I got my job. My boss tells me, u seems to have an answer prepared in your brain for everything b4 I ask you!
    Hmm. Good point to consider.
    But at least now I got a back up plan..
    Switch to video mode.. This is also anticipating that I might not be able to land that shot.
    i only replies to PM and nothing else..

  18. #58
    Senior Member sinned79's Avatar
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    Default Re: kenrockwell; fixed lenses == better pictures?

    Quote Originally Posted by sense rain View Post
    Hmm. Good point to consider.
    But at least now I got a back up plan..
    Switch to video mode.. This is also anticipating that I might not be able to land that shot.
    dat's a good plan too. some may not agree but if it works for you, why not?

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