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Thread: Is it wise to tell people who hire u that....

  1. #21

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    Hi ead,
    I used to shoot for my ministry too, so chip in abit.
    if a reshoot is possible maybe can try to 'position' your people into the 'good spots' before the service begins and of course brief them to be more 'expressive' during that particular worship session. Maybe can ask the youth groups and church leaders(Young and Elderly, generally the more 'ON' folks) to come for the same service to make the picture happen? I believe the leaders are more than willing to lend you a hand to get these people together.
    This may seem to be 'posing' for the pictures, but pictures with happy people will also remind people that P&W should be a happy thing. So instead of just a picture to show what's going on, let it also become a form of encouragement and reminder to the community.
    Even if everything don't workout, there are always many other ways to overcome them. Do not lose heart.
    Last edited by FiveIronFrenzy; 9th November 2004 at 01:00 AM.

  2. #22

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    The hardest part of life is learning to let go...

    I did a series of shoots lasting over 1-2 months for my church's 25th Anni mag.

    Many a times, I had to deal with far far far less than ideal conditions; and I was shooting with 135mm film all the way (no digital back then).

    A lot of event photography is about capturing the mood and essence of the moment, even if its in less than prfect i.e., iideal techinical moments. When Henri Cartir Bresson captured the perfect 'moment' of someone leaping over a puddle of water, the main sugject was blurred, and evrything else in th background was (relatively) sharp. Would you call that a failure? According to the norms and trends I see, I hazard a gues that a lot of photographers would actually condemn HCB's, and so many other masters' photographs, based on technical merit alone. Yet, they are still classics, and xamples of master craftsmen.

    cAPTURING 'Life' is not about which wedding guest is frowning, or which parishioner is sulking through the tedious sermons or how one's D2H or 1DMkII is performing. IT'S ABOUT SEEKING THE MOMENTS THAT MAKE FOR LIFE'S, MEMORABLE MOMENTS...AND CAPTURING THEM, regardless of technical limitations, or sometimes, even bcause of such limitations.

    Sometimes, a yawn, a sulk or a frown tells more than a million smiles, if life's truths are indeed treasured, as opposed to seemingly 'perfect' and absolutely presentable shots. Real lif, does not (always) happen in a posed shot.

    What a lot of photographers haven't experienced is that there is something called 'soul', and that soul doesn't not necessarily mean technically brilliant shots with the latest and greatest equipment (but that's not really an excuse for technical incompetency...there IS a difference).

    How does that translate to your situation?

    I can't give you an easy answer, but let's just say the cover shot of the magazine I did was done with a standard zoom lens, and the DP centre spread was shot with, of all things, a Nikon EM with a 28mm 'E' series lens set on a balcony 2 stories above the congregation held in place with masking tape...Ektachrome 400 pushed to 3200. Talk about low class equipment! But the shots exuded 'life' and 'feelings' and 'expression' more than anything else (at least in the editor's opinion for him to choose the shots to grace the cover and centrespread), and that is, in photos like these, what matters the most.

    If you would like to, show me some of your shots, and I will give you my totally humble but brutally honest comments, and if I can, suggest ways on how to salvage them, if salvation is needed in the first place.

  3. #23

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    P.S. No offence to anyone here, especially those who strive to capture the sharpest, most vivid smiles during events.

    All I am saying is that there is more to life, and photography, than sharp sharp happy looking pictures.

    BTW, excus my spelling mistakes; problems with my 'e' ky. But that didn't reduce the essence of my message did it?

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feinwerkbau
    The hardest part of life is learning to let go...

    I did a series of shoots lasting over 1-2 months for my church's 25th Anni mag.

    Many a times, I had to deal with far far far less than ideal conditions; and I was shooting with 135mm film all the way (no digital back then).

    A lot of event photography is about capturing the mood and essence of the moment, even if its in less than prfect i.e., iideal techinical moments. When Henri Cartir Bresson captured the perfect 'moment' of someone leaping over a puddle of water, the main sugject was blurred, and evrything else in th background was (relatively) sharp. Would you call that a failure? According to the norms and trends I see, I hazard a gues that a lot of photographers would actually condemn HCB's, and so many other masters' photographs, based on technical merit alone. Yet, they are still classics, and xamples of master craftsmen.

    cAPTURING 'Life' is not about which wedding guest is frowning, or which parishioner is sulking through the tedious sermons or how one's D2H or 1DMkII is performing. IT'S ABOUT SEEKING THE MOMENTS THAT MAKE FOR LIFE'S, MEMORABLE MOMENTS...AND CAPTURING THEM, regardless of technical limitations, or sometimes, even bcause of such limitations.

    Sometimes, a yawn, a sulk or a frown tells more than a million smiles, if life's truths are indeed treasured, as opposed to seemingly 'perfect' and absolutely presentable shots. Real lif, does not (always) happen in a posed shot.

    What a lot of photographers haven't experienced is that there is something called 'soul', and that soul doesn't not necessarily mean technically brilliant shots with the latest and greatest equipment (but that's not really an excuse for technical incompetency...there IS a difference).

    How does that translate to your situation?

    I can't give you an easy answer, but let's just say the cover shot of the magazine I did was done with a standard zoom lens, and the DP centre spread was shot with, of all things, a Nikon EM with a 28mm 'E' series lens set on a balcony 2 stories above the congregation held in place with masking tape...Ektachrome 400 pushed to 3200. Talk about low class equipment! But the shots exuded 'life' and 'feelings' and 'expression' more than anything else (at least in the editor's opinion for him to choose the shots to grace the cover and centrespread), and that is, in photos like these, what matters the most.

    If you would like to, show me some of your shots, and I will give you my totally humble but brutally honest comments, and if I can, suggest ways on how to salvage them, if salvation is needed in the first place.
    well said

    Anyway, dun worry about the pics. Show them to the church people 1st and then decide what you can do if they find them unsuitable. From there, it will be better to work out a plan with the decision makers than to worry your head off about how to deliver a job.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feinwerkbau
    The hardest part of life is learning to let go...

    I did a series of shoots lasting over 1-2 months for my church's 25th Anni mag.

    Many a times, I had to deal with far far far less than ideal conditions; and I was shooting with 135mm film all the way (no digital back then).

    A lot of event photography is about capturing the mood and essence of the moment, even if its in less than prfect i.e., iideal techinical moments. When Henri Cartir Bresson captured the perfect 'moment' of someone leaping over a puddle of water, the main sugject was blurred, and evrything else in th background was (relatively) sharp. Would you call that a failure? According to the norms and trends I see, I hazard a gues that a lot of photographers would actually condemn HCB's, and so many other masters' photographs, based on technical merit alone. Yet, they are still classics, and xamples of master craftsmen.

    cAPTURING 'Life' is not about which wedding guest is frowning, or which parishioner is sulking through the tedious sermons or how one's D2H or 1DMkII is performing. IT'S ABOUT SEEKING THE MOMENTS THAT MAKE FOR LIFE'S, MEMORABLE MOMENTS...AND CAPTURING THEM, regardless of technical limitations, or sometimes, even bcause of such limitations.

    Sometimes, a yawn, a sulk or a frown tells more than a million smiles, if life's truths are indeed treasured, as opposed to seemingly 'perfect' and absolutely presentable shots. Real lif, does not (always) happen in a posed shot.

    What a lot of photographers haven't experienced is that there is something called 'soul', and that soul doesn't not necessarily mean technically brilliant shots with the latest and greatest equipment (but that's not really an excuse for technical incompetency...there IS a difference).

    How does that translate to your situation?

    I can't give you an easy answer, but let's just say the cover shot of the magazine I did was done with a standard zoom lens, and the DP centre spread was shot with, of all things, a Nikon EM with a 28mm 'E' series lens set on a balcony 2 stories above the congregation held in place with masking tape...Ektachrome 400 pushed to 3200. Talk about low class equipment! But the shots exuded 'life' and 'feelings' and 'expression' more than anything else (at least in the editor's opinion for him to choose the shots to grace the cover and centrespread), and that is, in photos like these, what matters the most.

    If you would like to, show me some of your shots, and I will give you my totally humble but brutally honest comments, and if I can, suggest ways on how to salvage them, if salvation is needed in the first place.
    very valuable information to note man!! thanks for the priceless advice!
    totally agree with u on that not all 'the moment' shots have to be posed.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by SniperD
    well said

    Anyway, dun worry about the pics. Show them to the church people 1st and then decide what you can do if they find them unsuitable. From there, it will be better to work out a plan with the decision makers than to worry your head off about how to deliver a job.

    thanks man, met them this morning, the person in charge wasn't around but showed it to the others and they kinda liked it ... i was...surprised lah.
    anyway, no reshoot but still have to shoot again next week hahaha.. guess its a indirect reshoot afterall.

  7. #27
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    dumb question from me - wat lens, WB and ISO setting were u using during the shoot?

    i occasionally shoot for my own church functions too, most recent being last sat's youth ministry's anniversary. i remember my first shooting session in church was BPR (beyond possible repair) becos i was using a slow lens, wrong WB and ISO settings. from dat 1 screw-up, i learnt (at least shooting in my church with all the flourescent lightings), must use a fast lens and nothing less than ISO 800 to even get a reasonable pic. like ur church, also cannot use flash.

    take it as a learning experience lor. dun be too hard on urself. at least the church people were nice enuf to u, rather than wat u feared initially.
    If Life worked on auto mode then manual mode for photography would have never existed. ― Deeksha Mittal

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightwolf75
    dumb question from me - wat lens, WB and ISO setting were u using during the shoot?

    i occasionally shoot for my own church functions too, most recent being last sat's youth ministry's anniversary. i remember my first shooting session in church was BPR (beyond possible repair) becos i was using a slow lens, wrong WB and ISO settings. from dat 1 screw-up, i learnt (at least shooting in my church with all the flourescent lightings), must use a fast lens and nothing less than ISO 800 to even get a reasonable pic. like ur church, also cannot use flash.

    take it as a learning experience lor. dun be too hard on urself. at least the church people were nice enuf to u, rather than wat u feared initially.
    for that day i was using 3 lens, switching between them
    1) Canon 50mm, 1/4
    2) Canon 70-200mm,2.8
    3) Sigma 15-30mm,3.5
    2 flash, 550 and 420 but seldom used

    Auto WB, ISO 800 to 1000.

  9. #29

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    You definitely need a fast lens + use high ISO like 800 (min) for such low lighting photography ..

    fast lens = 85mm f1.8, f1.2L , 100mm f2 or 135mm f2L

    or IS lens

    70-200mm f2.8 L IS
    See my Photo Gallery at the Clubsnap

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by megaweb
    You definitely need a fast lens + use high ISO like 800 (min) for such low lighting photography ..

    fast lens = 85mm f1.8, f1.2L , 100mm f2 or 135mm f2L

    or IS lens

    70-200mm f2.8 L IS
    Agree
    For most performance settings, stage, concerts, if u dun want your pics to have motion blur and want it sharp i guess u have to use a fast lens.

  11. #31

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    Ehh....eadwine. Most of the photos which i took that people like are also not the sharp type with well exposed. Most times it's the colour and mood and soul of the pic.....like shilouette, fog with coloured spotlights, motion blur etc.... For such apps, forget about the expensive lenses, no real advantage. It's you, yourself....and of course the post-processing.

    Glad to hear that your church people liked your photos.

  12. #32
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    most of the time we are just too hard on ourselves...

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2100
    Ehh....eadwine. Most of the photos which i took that people like are also not the sharp type with well exposed. Most times it's the colour and mood and soul of the pic.....like shilouette, fog with coloured spotlights, motion blur etc.... For such apps, forget about the expensive lenses, no real advantage. It's you, yourself....and of course the post-processing.

    Glad to hear that your church people liked your photos.
    thats true that a picture paints a thousand words and some people like sharp some people see the mood of the photo. different views from different people.
    both has their advantages

  14. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by eadwine
    thanks man, met them this morning, the person in charge wasn't around but showed it to the others and they kinda liked it ... i was...surprised lah.
    anyway, no reshoot but still have to shoot again next week hahaha.. guess its a indirect reshoot afterall.
    All the best me8!

    I'm sure that you will get some very nice shots.

    Cheers!

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