External flash for 602Z and equivalent

[Zerstorer]

Quote: Originally posted by mpenza Had the same problem with the SB80DX as well Seems alright with the SB24. I might be the camera's that's not really what it meant.

Seems alright with my Vivitar though. Using the ISO100 settings, flash seems a little hot and requires some -EV as should be the case since the camera is ISO160.

Compared the Camera's metering with my film SLR and they came up identical, so it shouldn't be the case.

Btw, what's the GN rating of the SB24@50mm?

[mpenza]

GN@50mm, ISO100 is 42m....

[fruitybix]

Quote: Originally posted by Jeff @170 from Fotoguide w/o bargaining cause need not. I find they will automatically quote the best price.

Yep, that is fantastic deal, Fotoguide does give some of the best prices for msot things. Their filters and lenses are some of the cheapest in town.

[imaginary_number]

Quote: Originally posted by shawntim One thing I don't like about the Metz.. i can't use the same settings as my cam. I always have to compensate.. does anyone have this problem how to properly use this device?

No problems. Just shoot more often and setting the flash should become second nature to you.

[Nospeech]

I found that Fujifilm has two models of external flash, the FPF34 and the FL-MX29. Anyone here used this flash before? Any comments?

[cillin]

Quote: Originally posted by mpenza GN@50mm, ISO100 is 42m....

If shooting at ISO 100, the flash can fire up to a distance of 42m if the lens is at 50mm equivalent to 35mm?
Care to explain what does the above spec mean? Thanks.

[mpenza]

Quote: Originally posted by cillin If shooting at ISO 100, the flash can fire up to a distance of 42m if the lens is at 50mm equivalent to 35mm? Care to explain what does the above spec mean? Thanks.

GN = Distance x Aperture

divide GN by aperture to get flash range.

50mm refers to the flash, not the lens.

[mpenza]

Quote: Originally posted by Nospeech I found that Fujifilm has two models of external flash, the FPF34 and the FL-MX29. Anyone here used this flash before? Any comments?

never tried them before but from what I hear, they're expensive and not worth the price.

[cillin]

Quote: Originally posted by mpenza GN = Distance x Aperture divide GN by aperture to get flash range. 50mm refers to the flash, not the lens. GN@50mm, ISO100 is 42m....

Thanks, am I correct with the following calculation

If f 2.8, the flash range will be 42/2.8 = 15m
If f 11, the flash range will be 42/11 = 3.82m

[mpenza]

correct. for more info regarding external flash, you could check out the link below. There're good info on external flash towards the bottom half, especially on the various modes (TTL, auto, manual).

http://www.cs.mtu.edu/~shene/DigiCam...995/index.html

[Nospeech]

Quote: Originally posted by mpenza never tried them before but from what I hear, they're expensive and not worth the price.

I thought so too. From the looks of the flashes (via WWW), they don't seemed to be that wonderful. From the US Fujifilm site, FL-MX29 is going at about $50 (US). I would believe this price would get me something else more worthy, am I right?

[mpenza]

Nospeech, get others. don't need to get that fuji one.

hmm.... there're more users of Nikon flash than any other brand up for new users to update

[mpenza]

up for recent buyers to update!

[Cookee]

Got a Metz 32Z1 from CP at $170.

[Gr|ever]

Is external flash necessary? Fuji S602Z have got a flash of it's own liao. But I heard from many that it's insufficient. Why is that? Under what circumstances does having an external flash make a difference?

Quote: Originally posted by Gr|ever Is external flash necessary? Fuji S602Z have got a flash of it's own liao. But I heard from many that it's insufficient. Why is that? Under what circumstances does having an external flash make a difference?

the built-in flash on the 602 is very limited. it only allows u 2 shoot up 2 4.7m @ wide n 3m @ tele. u will really suffer when u wanna take nite shots of moving subjects. which is wat happened 2 me at the chingay recently. as a result i got myself a metz 32z-1 a few days ago. cheers!

[mpenza]

External flash comes in useful for the following situations:
1. when the subject is far away. Built-in flash is not powerful enough.
2. you need fast recycling time. External flash with it's own batteries recharge faster
3. conserve battery power on the camera
4. when you want to bounce the flash for a softer effect and use light more creatively (e.g. just highlight one part of the frame, etc)
5. illuminate closeby subjects, e.g. insects. buil-in flash will be blocked by the protruding lens.

Just something I think of at the spur of the moment.....

Quote: Originally posted by mpenza External flash comes in useful for the following situations: 1. when the subject is far away. Built-in flash is not powerful enough. 2. you need fast recycling time. External flash with it's own batteries recharge faster 3. conserve battery power on the camera 4. when you want to bounce the flash for a softer effect and use light more creatively (e.g. just highlight one part of the frame, etc) 5. illuminate closeby subjects, e.g. insects. buil-in flash will be blocked by the protruding lens. Just something I think of at the spur of the moment.....

[mpenza]

There's a tie now between Metz 32Z1, Vivitar 285HV and Nikon highend flash....

[e_liau]

Quote: Originally posted by mpenza External flash comes in useful for the following situations: 1. when the subject is far away. Built-in flash is not powerful enough. 2. you need fast recycling time. External flash with it's own batteries recharge faster 3. conserve battery power on the camera 4. when you want to bounce the flash for a softer effect and use light more creatively (e.g. just highlight one part of the frame, etc) 5. illuminate closeby subjects, e.g. insects. buil-in flash will be blocked by the protruding lens.

6. When you want to manually set the flash power by adjusting the zoom coverage, the +/- flash compensation,
7. When high-speed sync flash output is necessary.

[mpenza]

Quote: Originally posted by e_liau 6. When you want to manually set the flash power by adjusting the zoom coverage, the +/- flash compensation, 7. When high-speed sync flash output is necessary.

Point 7 is not necessarily true. On the 602Z, the internal flash could sync at high speed too.

[s2s1]

Any suggestion for newbie of s602z? Thinking i seldom use external flash so want to buy a cheap one to try.

Which model is below $100 and worth for newbie to buy?

Somebody selling Metz 36 C-2, what's the diff with 32 Z-2? How far can 32 z-2 reach? Anyone know the proce of a new set of 32 c-2?

http://www.metz.de/1_metz_2000/m_pag...name=mecablitz

[Gr|ever]

Newbie here too...

What do you consider when buying an external flash? 1 thing I know is how powerful the flash will be (is there a term for that?). What other factors do I need to know? Why is some external flash so much more expensive then the rest?

Thanx in advance.

[s2s1]

Quote: Originally posted by Gr|ever Newbie here too... What do you consider when buying an external flash? 1 thing I know is how powerful the flash will be (is there a term for that?). What other factors do I need to know? Why is some external flash so much more expensive then the rest? Thanx in advance.

Hope can hav some guide too here. R u using s602z?

[Gr|ever]

Quote: Originally posted by s2s1 Hope can hav some guide too here. R u using s602z?

Yeah... I'm using S602Z. Almost totally clueless about external flash, except the fact that it's able to illuminate things... Help anyone?!

BTW, your avatar of Selina is SO chio!

[s2s1]

Quote: Originally posted by Gr|ever Yeah... I'm using S602Z. Almost totally clueless about external flash, except the fact that it's able to illuminate things... Help anyone?! BTW, your avatar of Selina is SO chio!

Haha, i copy it from somewhere.
I'm newbie to external flash too. Do u want buy together after my exam?

[Gr|ever]

Quote: Originally posted by s2s1 Haha, i copy it from somewhere. I'm newbie to external flash too. Do u want buy together after my exam?

Eh... if we can get cheaper price when buying in pairs, why not?! But 1st thing 1st... we need to know the stuff we're getting. That's why I was hoping someone here might help us out.... No replies to my questions as yet.

[s2s1]

Quote: Originally posted by Gr|ever Eh... if we can get cheaper price when buying in pairs, why not?! But 1st thing 1st... we need to know the stuff we're getting. That's why I was hoping someone here might help us out.... No replies to my questions as yet.

Think getting those famous in voting, eg. Vivitar 285HV and Metz 32Z1, unless somebody can intro 1 less than $100 but good for s602z.
How much is ur budget?

[oooh]

hi guys, i currently selling mine @$80 metz 36C-2 + omni bounce, it's a very good flash much smaller and nicer than vivitar n 32z1, drop me a msg in you are interested


spec
Zoom Head@ 28mm 35mm 50mm 85mm
90,60,45,30 degree

35mm ISO160 F2.8 30m
85mm ISO160 F2.8 45m

[mpenza]

an intro to flash:
http://www.chem.helsinki.fi/~toomas/...flash-faq.html

an intro to automatic flash:
http://www.cs.mtu.edu/~shene/DigiCam...use-A-990.html

The second article is very good at explaining how to use automatic flash (which is what most/all of the S602Z users are using).

[s2s1]

Quote: Originally posted by mpenza an intro to flash: http://www.chem.helsinki.fi/~toomas/...flash-faq.html an intro to automatic flash: http://www.cs.mtu.edu/~shene/DigiCam...use-A-990.html The second article is very good at explaining how to use automatic flash (which is what most/all of the S602Z users are using).

Thank you! The links are very useful!

[s2s1]

Quote: Originally posted by oooh hi guys, i currently selling mine @$80 metz 36C-2 + omni bounce, it's a very good flash much smaller and nicer than vivitar n 32z1, drop me a msg in you are interested spec Zoom Head@ 28mm 35mm 50mm 85mm 90,60,45,30 degree 35mm ISO160 F2.8 30m 85mm ISO160 F2.8 45m

The GN unit is 'meter' or 'feet'? If it's feet, the "35mm ISO160 F2.8 30m" should be 10m only?

http://www.metz.de/1_metz_2000/m_pag...ab_36_C_2.html

[mpenza]

Metz's specification is in metres.

You don't need to specify the aperture when listing the guide numbers, so you could simply discard the F2.8 in oooh's post. Anyway, for easy comparison, at max zoom of 85mm, ISO100 the 36C2 has a GN of 36m.

35mm ISO160 F2.8 30m
85mm ISO160 F2.8 45m

32Z1 and 32Z2 both has a max GN of 37m at 85mm, ISO100. The difference is not really significant but the 32Z series could swivel horizontally in addition to tilting vertically (36C2 could only tilt vertically like the Vivitar 285HV).

[s2s1]

Quote: Originally posted by mpenza Metz's specification is in metres. You don't need to specify the aperture when listing the guide numbers, so you could simply discard the F2.8 in oooh's post. Anyway, for easy comparison, at max zoom of 85mm, ISO100 the 36C2 has a GN of 36m. 35mm ISO160 F2.8 30m 85mm ISO160 F2.8 45m 32Z1 and 32Z2 both has a max GN of 37m at 85mm, ISO100. The difference is not really significant but the 32Z series could swivel horizontally in addition to tilting vertically (36C2 could only tilt vertically like the Vivitar 285HV).

Is it the GN listed normal under f2.8 (when not mentioned)?
coz from the 2nd link u gav:
"For example, suppose we use ISO 100 and a flash of GN 50. If we choose to use F8.0, the flash-subject distance should be less than or equal to 50/8 = 6.25 ft"

So the max distance can ur object be related to ur appeture number.
From the Metz spec "Guide number by ISO 100/21° and 50 mm == 30", this 30m is under f2.8, or i need 30/2.8 = 10m ??

[mpenza]

The F2.8 is redundant. It does not make any sense to include it as it does not mean anything. It's like stating GN 10m, 10kg. 10kg makes no sense for GN and is redundant. No one should list GN with aperture. GN is only relevant when quoted together with the ISO setting and the flash zoom position (if any).

GN = Aperture x Distance or
Distance = GN / Aperture

Aperture depends on the exact setting for the camera's lens. e.g. you're using a flash with a GN of 30m. If you're using F11, the max flash distance will be 30/11m. If you're using F2.8, it's 30/2.8m. You could change the Aperture under the manual exposure mode or the aperture priority exposure mode of the camera.

[s2s1]

Ok, thank u! Got a clearer pic now.

"Guide number by ISO 100/21° and 50 mm == 30"

So, from the spec of Metz 36 C-2 above, my obj max distance can be 30m/2.8 = 10.7m when i set my camera to ISO160, f2.8 with 50mm zoom. Correct?

How if i set my camera to 35mm (widen without tele)? How to calculate now?

[mpenza]

GN changes with ISO. If it's ISO 160, the GN will be higher compared to the specs for ISO 100. For every doubling of the ISO, GN increases by 1.4x. I'm not exactly sure the multiplier if ISO increase by 1.6x.

If you want to know the exact range for different ISO and zoom setting, buy the flash and check the manual. For some flash with LCD, the exact range is shown on the screen for different ISO, aperture and manual power settings. For other flash, there's usually some kind of table on the flash that shows the various distances.

You don't need to manually calculate though. The 2nd article I quoted teach you to use the automatic mode. Read it for more information.

[oooh]

hmm.....i don't think u need to remember all this, jus use the manual calculator behind the flash, problem solved Actually i don't find the guide number accurate it's juz to provide a brief guide, ur surrounding lightings may change it

[s2s1]

ok. Thank you very much!

[mpenza]

yup, it's just a guide (pun intended). It greatly depends on the environment you're in. If you're indoors with white walls and ceilings, the reflections of the flash off them will carry the flash further compared to when you're outdoors.